32. Jakob Owens | Director / Entrepreneur | Building a Personal Brand and Multiple Income Streams as a Filmmaker

In this episode, Marshal chats with filmmaker and entrepreneur Jakob Owens about building a seven-figure brand / business and transforming his career from day-rate gigs to multiple income streams. Jakob shares insights on the importance of a solid business partner, balancing life and work, and creating a thriving creative career. Tune in for his advice on overcoming challenges and tips for aspiring filmmakers.

Episode Highlights

6:26 How Jakob got started in filmmaking

12:47 Building an audience

22:22 Jakob’s multiple income streams

25:06 Breaking out of the day rate mindset

34:56 Managing multiple businesses

38:34 Creating systems and processes

45:40 Selling without an audience

55:13 How to avoid burnout

1:16:39 Jakob's current project

🔗 CONNECT WITH Jakob Owens

📸 Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/jakobowens/ 💻 Website | https://www.directorjakobowens.com/ 💻 Website | https://tropiccolour.com/

🔗 CONNECT WITH MARSHAL

📸 Instagram | www.instagram.com/marshalchupa 💻 Website | www.marshalchupa.com 👥 Linkedin | www.linkedin.com/in/marshal-chupa-99a7921a8

📄 SHOW NOTES & TRANSCRIPT

Visit the website for the transcript and highlights from the conversation - www.shotlistpodcast.com

🎙 ABOUT THE PODCAST

This podcast is all about helping emerging cinematographers, photographers, and directors navigate the challenges of making a life and a living behind the lens. From workflow to personal growth, creative vision to marketing, finances to production—every episode is packed with a wide range of topics to support visual storytellers in their pursuit of building a business and growing a career they are proud of.

🎧 LISTEN FOR FREE Apple Podcasts | https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/shotlist/id1645435800 Spotify | https://open.spotify.com/show/3m5203Y5yQ7wNXQhZBOmNV?si=f46bc0e937bf40c1 RSS | https://anchor.fm/s/5cb2e948/podcast/rss

🙏 LEAVE A REVIEW

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📱 GET IN TOUCH

You can also drop me a DM instagram @marshalchupa or email marshal@marshalchupa.com

Transcript

Introduction and Welcome

I think no matter what part, uh, you are in your career life, there is an audience for you. There are people. There's people looking up to me where I'm at right now as the guy guidance, but I'm like, also, there's people I'm looking up to there, just like, yo, uh, you know what I mean? So I think at any point in your career life, there is someone that's looking to you for help and guidance.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Shotless podcast, where we talk about how to make a life and a living behind the lens photographer Marshall Chupa. And today I'm speaking with director and entrepreneur Jacob Owens. In this episode, Jacob and I dive into how, uh, building an audience and a brand around yourself can be the foundation for so many business opportunities, how to get away from the day rate mindset and expand your ideas around income creation, the importance of a good business partner, and how hiring help is the way to scale, and the importance of maintaining a healthy body and mind to show up for the career we love and for our families. Jacob is definitely someone who has stood out in the industry to me for many years, as he has done such a great job at documenting his journey and giving a raw, behind the scenes look at himself as a director entrepreneur, and someone who wants to help other filmmakers along their creative path. I'm excited to bring this conversation to you.

Let's dive in. Jacob, thanks so much for coming on the show today. Really appreciate you being here.

Yeah, thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

Well, it feels like you've managed to touch every part of the indie filmmaking world, and I've been kind of seeing you pop up on my feed for various amounts of years, just kind of almost in every facet and crack. And I'm not sure how you've been able to do that, but you've definitely got your face out there. But for those who don't know you, how would you describe yourself and what you're up to?

Man, that's always the tricky question. I mean, I think the easiest way to put it is a filmmaker entrepreneur at heart. I'm just, you know, and within that space of being a filmmaker and entrepreneur, just do a bunch of. A bunch of different things from direct music videos, films, uh, to, you know, opening my own film and photo studios, to having several different product based companies on the post digital editing side, but also on the physical side with, like, camera filters, accessories, products, et cetera. So it's just a wide array of, uh, businesses and endeavors, all kind of relating back to just the film industry and aspects of filmmaking, the creative field, but, yeah, just, I guess, filmmaker entrepreneur.

Yeah. I think that entrepreneur title really suits you because I don't think there's anyone out there that I've seen build so many businesses with, like, the branch always coming back to almost filmmaking. So it's been impressive to watch, and I want to dive into that, more into this conversation, but it's impressive to see how many little arms you've been able to build into all the facets of this space. I haven't seen many people doing that.

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people will have kind of, like, uh, maybe a side project or business or thing they do, or they have their production company and maybe dabble in certain aspects and areas, but not to, like, maybe, I guess the degree that I've done where you kind of said, uh, like, yeah, you're in all of these different pockets and areas of the industry, and, I mean, I'm sure we'll dive into it, but it's just, I don't even know. It just kind of has happened. Like, it's just, it's just stuff. I just find things interesting, and I think it all that's what it sends back to is, like, it's all stuff that interests me and I'm passionate about. It's not, like, first and foremost, the one that, like, probably led into all of it was just tropic color, whereas, like, I was just a filmmaker and an editor, always, obviously, editing and editing my own projects and things. And people always ask me, like, oh, well, how do you color this? How. What do you, how are you doing for all this stuff? And I just started making, you know, digital assets and selling them. Um, and that was kind of, like, my first foray into, like, oh, wow, there's like, yeah, I could build a store, like, an online store, which is, like, assets for editors. And it's just stuff that I myself wanted to see, stuff that I knew I could make for my edits and whatnot. It all kind of started there, and then it's like, it just stemmed into the studios with, like, okay, I'm a filmmaker renting a, uh, studio and spending a third of my budget on this location, and it's like, well, what if I had my own location and I didn't have to pay three, four grand to be this person's spot? I could put that towards stuff on screen or put it in my pocket or whatever, and it's like, I need my own space, and so I open up my own space and that's like, oh, wow, there's something here. So then I go down the route of studios, and then same thing with prism, and it's like we're on set shooting these music videos and always playing with, like, different objects in front of lens. It's like, oh, what if there was a way to, like, mount one of these things and we made the one thing and then people were like, oh, that's cool. Where'd you get it? And it was like, oh, there's something here, like, we should make different. So it's like, it always just kind of stemmed from stuff I was doing in my career, in life. And then I was like, oh, I could build a business around this. And I've just have always had also just as much as, like, that, uh, filmmaking drive, like, the passion for film and just making videos and whatnot. Like, I've also, like, I feel like, always had an ambition and drive for just, like, creating and building things out, like, just in general. And I think that's kind of like, entrepreneurship is like, you're building and creating something and, yeah, fortunately, like, it's just a lot of. I mean, a lot of it's worked. I've had stuff that hasn't worked as well. Like, but, yeah, fortunately, a lot of things have worked and have taken and, yeah, it's been fun. I really enjoy it. Yeah. Just doing. I think my brain works that way, too. Like, I just, like, if, uh, all I ever did was only direct music videos, I'd get so bored. Like, I just. It wouldn't, it wouldn't be fulfilling to me. I have too many ideas floating around, too many things I want to see and, yeah, like I said, I just enjoy creating things, building things, seeing them come to life, and I don't know. That's just a lot of fun to me.

Yeah. Uh, it just sounds like who you are ultimately. Like, you're solving your own problems, and then you're realizing those can also help others, and then you wrap it up into a business model, and there you go. It seems like you keep doing that over and over and over, which is, like, pretty cool.

No, for sure.

How Jakob got Started in Filmmaking

Before we dive too far down that rabbit hole, I'd love to just, like, where did filmmaking begin for you? Let's just say, like, because that's the first step, was obviously getting excited about, you know, making a living with a camera. Where were things, like, if we go back to even before that, what was that step into filmmaking for you?

I just. My parents always. I mean, probably a similar story to a lot of filmmakers out there. I just always picked up my parents home, like, little movie camera, family camera when we were kids and just made little videos with my brother and neighborhood friends and made little monster movies and would just film anything and everything. And so I just always kind of had a camera in my hand, and growing up, it just stayed in my hand. And then in high school, you know, the guys on the football team asked me. They knew, like, I messed with video and just played around with it, and they're like, hey, can you make, like, a commercial for, like, the pep rally? So I made, like, a little under, we made, like, a little under armour hype commercial spot, and we played it at the pep rally. In that whole day, all, all throughout that day on, um, campus at school, this would have been my sophomore year in high school. I just had, like, teachers and students and everyone coming on to me. That video was so crazy. Like, you should make videos, like, that was amazing. Like, blah, blah, blah. Like, and I think that was, like, I always revert back to that. That was my moment of, like, oh, this is what I'm gonna do for my life. Like, my job is I'm going to make videos. So, yeah, kind of started there, right?

And then, okay, that's a great little, like, nudge towards saying, like, hey, this is what I could do for a living. But how did that then begin to generate income for the first time? You're thinking back to, like, your first jobs and, like, actually tangibly making cash with this. I think a lot of people are at that point where they, they love doing what they do with the camera, but it's like, then how does that become a business?

So for me, the quickest some of it all is like, so then I decided to go to film school. And while I was in film school freshman year, I was just always going out and filming anything and everything. And I would just, like, I would literally go and, like, film nature and flowers and then edit and put something together and put it on YouTube. Or then I would, like, film myself in my dorm room, like, having a nightmare, pick all these angles and try and work on editing techniques to make it, like, this crazy editing nightmare dream sequence. And I put it on YouTube. And. And then shortly, kind of around that time, my friend who was a music artist was like, oh, like, you go to film school. I see you're making videos. You want to do a music video? And I was like, cool, sure. Did this music video for him. And I mean, for free, you know, he didn't have any money and we just, I was trying to, you know, I was in film school. I wanted to make videos. I was like, cool. And we put that out, and then someone saw that and was just like, yo, like, you do music videos, how much you charge? And I was just like, oh, uh, like, $150. It was like, nothing. Like, I just, at that point, it wasn't, I wasn't trying to, like, make it a job. I was just trying to shoot stuff, make videos, practice, get better. I'm in school. Like, I wasn't worried about, like, oh, I need to make money, like, you need to pay me. And so I was like, $150. And so I started doing just little local music videos for $150. A lot of them free. Like, big artists today. Like the artist Kyle, uh, who had one of the biggest songs in the, in the world at one point. Like, I just reached out to him on Facebook because we had a mutual friend. I was like, yo, I'll shoot you a bunch of free videos. Just let me know when you're down. And I shot some other free videos for some local people just to, like, build a reel. And then I just used that reel to, like, reach out to artists and was just started doing music videos for like $200, $250, super, super cheap. And more people started to take notice. And then all of a sudden, people started hitting me up that were a little bigger, that I could tell weren't just like some high school kid. And I was like, oh, $500, like, and it just kind of snowballed from there. But, uh, I think it came from just the willingness and activeness to go out and just shoot stuff and build a reel and a portfolio. And I wasn't worried about the money. I just wanted to go make stuff. And I knew big picture. I think it was right around this time, too, where I saw Mac Miller start to pop off on YouTube through music videos. And his director, who shot all his videos, was doing all his videos and then was doing other people's videos. Oh, uh, that's kind of, that could be my end is, like, music videos. And so I think I saw the bigger picture, too, of just, like, trying to shoot as many artists music videos, whether they had money or didn't have any money, and just build a name for myself. And I was able to build a name for myself and ultimately build a career off of that. So, I mean, I think early on, you just, you kind of have to put in, put in the work and pay your dues and not be worried about if you're going to make money. Right away. But I would, you know, try and build a real or repertoire of, like, the stuff you want to do. Like, don't you know, if commercial directing is what you want to do, start reaching out to different brands and companies that you can shoot stuff for and don't go to them. Um, cold. Like, I'm talking about, if you're early, early, like, don't go to them and be like, hey, I can make you a video, but I charge this. It's just like, hey, I'm a commercial. Like, paint yourself as that thing. I'm a commercial director. I work with a lot of brands this, that, like, I would love to, I'd love your guys company. I would love to make you a video and just start trying to build a reel around the work that you want to do. And then eventually the work will start to find you or you'll be able to use that work and go leverage paying clients. But it's hard out the gate to just get people to, if you're just getting started to pay you when it's like, okay, what have you done? Uh, that was the formula for me. But the music video space. Yeah. Like, I was just able to build a following from that, which led to starting and building tropic color to the studios. And then obviously each business, it's been, I mean, going back to that, I think it's been easy, or not easy, but easier than maybe other people would find it to get these businesses off the ground because of the following and trust and traction that I had built. Uh, so it's like when I launch something, there's already a decent customer base that's willing to, to kind of buy into that thing because of what the legwork and the groundwork. If I was just a nobody who had no following, no background, uh, no whatever, and I just came up with this idea for this new business, tried to launch it. It'd be tough. It'd be, or it'd be a lot harder, you know? So I think that's why, like, just having a, even just like a social presence and following can be very beneficial if you're trying to launch any sort of business or grow any sort of business.

Building an Audience

Let's dive into that part, because I think that, uh, leads into one of my next questions is like, the game is kind of changing and there's a lot to do with now, like, personal brand and the influencer side of things. So, like, when and why did you start growing or basically turning the camera around and starting to film yourself and put yourself in that position. And was that a very conscious decision early on?

No, I think it was. I mean, it was. Yeah. Right from the jump, as soon as I started making these music videos and putting them, um, up on my YouTube channel, I was just getting questions about, like, why does your color look like this? How are you doing that effect? And I was just like, okay, let me tell you how. And I would bring people behind the scenes. I mean, this is early on. I'm just shooting with a t two I and a kit lens kind of thing. But I think that's something that's important, too. I think that, uh, no matter what part you are in your career life, there is an audience for you. There are people, like, there's people looking up to me where I'm at right now as, like, the guy guidance bubba. But I'm like, also, there's people I'm looking up to there just like, yo, like, uh. You know what I mean? So I think at any point in your career life, there is someone that's looking to you for help and guidance. So, I mean, I was just a 18 year old kid with a teacher on a kit lens putting videos on YouTube. Like, but people are like, yo, how are you doing this? This? And we're looking up. To me, it's like, because I'm in a tangent. Like, I'm, I guess, reachable in a way where it's like, maybe they're looking at someone like Christopher Nolan. It's like, that's not. It's not within reach for them. But this guy who's got a t two I making cool videos like, he is, so, yeah, I think that's something to take into consideration, too. No matter where you're at in your journey, I think there is, like, an audience for you. Yeah. And I just got lucky. I was just. It wasn't, like, a really conscious thing. It just was just like, I'm getting questions, and I'm taking you guys along for the ride, but I wasn't by any means, trying to, like, be famous or have this fun. It was just, uh, just happened kind of naturally and organically early on, which is cool.

Yeah. And I think, I mean, uh, at least what I'm seeing and have experienced with peers is just, like, it's not normal to turn the camera around. Like, most artists are introverts, you know, they don't want to be the person they're talking about the thing and all that.

Dude, it's still weird for me. It's still, like, today I was taking, like, I've been trying to do a better job at just, like, like, the YouTube channel I have now. Just, I feel like I'm in an interesting position where I have so much going on in my life as a filmmaker, a business owner, an entrepreneur. Like, I was like, I need to just, like, show very raw behind the scenes of everything that I do. Like, I don't feel like you said there's too many people doing all of the kind of different things I do at once. And I was like, that's. I'm in a unique position that way. I should just be documenting that and talking about it instead of trying to make YouTube videos, like, cinematic unboxing gear. This, that. Look at these shots. It's like, no, let me just document, like, that's me. That's where I'm at right now. And. And even now, it's like walking around with my phone. It still feels weird to be like, so, yeah, today I'm, um, down at the warehouse. That's what I'm doing. Like, it's just you're talking to no one, like, you know what I mean? So it's still weird. I don't think it ever doesn't not get or be weird. You just kind of have to get over it and do it.

There's, like, a conscious decision that's happening there over and over because it's not easy to, like, uh, every day, kind of like, I'm going to do this thing and I'm going to keep documenting my life. It's also super vulnerable. I was just doing a bit of research yesterday going on YouTube, and here I am watching a video of you and your wife having a conversation about buying a mortgage and, uh, getting a mortgage and debating the rates you're going to pay for the home. And it's just like, wow, how many people are actually exposing their lives to that extent? You are, and that draws a ton of people, I think. But it's also vulnerable as hell, you know? How are you able to get around that? Like, is it just. Yeah, something that feels natural?

I mean, yeah, maybe feels a little bit natural in terms of, like, I've been, I guess, doing it for so long. It's like, if you were to look at, okay, I started my YouTube channel. My initial one that, you know, the buff nerds, which blew up back in, started that in 2011. So it's like, I've, um, doing it for over a decade. Just familiar with being in front of the camera. So it's like, now it's like if I vlog myself or I film the conversations. It's not too weird to me because it's just something I've done for a long time. It, uh, doesn't. Can't be or feel weird, but because it's not natural, again, to just go throughout your life with a camera in your face. But I can imagine, like, if I've never done that before, just picking up and filming these conversations or whatever. Yeah. Would be a little strange or weird. But, yeah, I mean, it is. Sometimes it's like, all right, we're gonna have this conversation right now. Let me. And it's just like, all right, let's have this conversation. It is strange. You know what I mean? But I've always been, like, from day one, like, I've tried to help people and, like, it's why I did all the videos that I did on my YouTube channel talking about stuff. It's why I made my little buff nerds video guide j o p manual on how I shot my videos. It's why I always responded to questions. I've had a mentor, like, multiple. Multiple mentorship programs where, yeah, you know, do Zoom calls with people, bring them on set. I just. I enjoy helping, teaching, showing. Not everyone likes doing that, but, yeah, I. I do enjoy it. So, yeah, I mean, when you get the messages that I get, like, where it's just like, dude, like, you changed my life. I own, like, a big one is, uh, honestly, at the real estate stuff, like, and talking about that, I've had a lot of people be like, you showed me, like, as a filmmaker that I could be more than just filmmaker, invest in other stuff. And, like, dude, I have four properties now that I manage Airbnb. I get those messages and it's like, to know, it's like, damn. Like, the stuff I'm talking about really is impacting people's lives. It's. It's cool. And not everyone gets to see that stuff. Like, I get to see it, but not.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can relate to that. It's like being in service, you know? So something that. That's also why I'm doing this podcast is like, the. The DM's I receive from this. It's like, wow, no one else is unpacking this stuff. Thank you so much. Like, this is super helpful. Like, that's so rewarding because I think something that I've noticed and for me, at least as a commercial DP, and just like, that's very self centered. Like, we're creating for the act of creating, and it's like, it's kind of like a, feels, uh, more selfish. Whereas when you come back and you actually can create something of value for the community and then you're getting the, these messages like, wow, you're making an impact on me. That's like a whole other level of value that's beyond monetary, you know?

So 100%. I mean, like, the horror film contest that I throw, which shameless plug is coming up. So if anyone's listening to this, like, I always launch this horror film short horror film contest in September and this will be the 6th year. But, like, that is a contest of which I don't gain anything from. Like, it's, it's not like I make money off of it or do it this or that. Like, I spend a lot of time and money hosting this contest. And the amount of like, filmmakers or one, the amount of films that are made and submitted because of this contest are incredible. But the amount of messages I received, like, yo, this is the thing I look forward to every year because it pushes me to actually go out and make a film. And like, you're like, I had so much fun. I learned new things, I met new people. Like, please don't ever stop this contest. Like, I need it because, and true. And even I even need it because it, uh, gives me an excuse to be like, all right, I, I need to go make a film. Like, you know, made one all year. This is, this is my time. But I spent a lot of time and money putting this thing together. And like, the guy that won it last year, we did, last year was our first year doing like a big, I hosted a big event, screening, night party. We had food, drinks, we played the top ten films handed out, announced the three winners, handed out awards. And like, people were like crying and like, just, they're there, dude. I had people flying from across the country to come to this thing and just like, we're so excited to have like, won awards or just be present with these other filmmakers and just like, oh, it's just really, really cool. And it's like, that's something that, yeah, like you said in service, that's something that I just, I genuinely, uh, look forward to every year because it's just like, when I'm sitting there, when I get all the films submitted, I'm sitting there, I'm like, damn, I have to go through 300, watch 350 short films right now. It's like, if you really think about how hard it is to make a short film, it's not like you just pull out your phone and you go like, you gotta there's the prep, there's the, the writing, the production, getting a group of people together to go make it, then the editing, it's like, that's a lot of work. And the fact that this many people come together to do this, like, it's cool for me. And just, yeah, like I said, the messages I get of like, hey, this pushes me to do what I actually want to do and which is be a filmmaker. Like, thank you for this contest so much. Without it, like, I wouldn't made this film. So I love that stuff, you know what I mean?

Jakob’s Multiple Income Streams

Totally. And to be able to do something like that for the community to have finances available for grow, that ultimately you have to have other ways of paying the bills on the back end. And that kind of leads me to, it feels like you were able to tap into almost every part of the film industry and find a way to bundle something up and package it and sell it back of value to the community. And I know you've created multiple seven figure businesses. I'm curious to start out, could you just like kind of with broad strokes, paint some of the, paint a picture for all the things that essentially you've created?

Yeah, I mean, there's, I guess, tropic color, which is just a bunch of digital assets for editors and for filmmakers. There's also just various courses and stuff on there too. We have our cinematography course on there, which was a separate thing, which now just lives over on Tropic. But yeah, there's assets for editors. We've got various filmmaking courses. So that's kind of that digital world of the film and editing space which touches on post. Then you have obviously prism lens effects, which is the filter company, which makes, you know, we make and design camera filters. And then with that though, like, we run like meetups and different events through prism as well. So we've had getting ready to plan our third one, but we do these meetups where we can connect, network with photographers, let them into our film studios. We also, we always hosted at one of our film studios. So that leads it into that. Like, we have like seven different film studios, all of which have a unique, different style, look, vibe, just because, like, I know coming up, all of the things that I needed and wanted to shoot various music videos, commercials, films, etcetera. So each location kind of caters to a different aspect of, you know, you have your desert location, you have your grungy la warehouse, you have your vintage home, you have, you know, all the different kind of things. And we try and price those as affordably as possible, because I just know, like, when I was coming up, like, it's like I said, like, I was, you know, a huge chunk of your budget is just going to this one location. And it's like, I wanted to create a bunch of spaces that I myself would want to use for my own projects, but obviously other people could as well. So we have the film and photo studios. I guess those would be like the three main businesses, the studios, the, um, uh, prism and then tropic. And then I've always kind of had some auxiliary things, and then I have my production company and everything that I do. But in terms of just, I guess businesses that service the community would probably be, those are kind of like the main three things.

Breaking Out of the Day Rate Mindset

Yeah. When it comes to the mindset around money and entrepreneurship, I think a lot of filmmakers, DP's photographers, they're very stuck in the day rate mindset. I think that's so common of just like, okay, I'm an artist. I make this much money per day. I go out, I shoot the thing, I deliver it, and then I wait for a phone call or an email and I rinse and repeat this cycle, which is never, uh, ending, feast or famine, life cycle. Whereas I think you, I see you, I definitely resonate a lot more with kind of your approach. And just the entrepreneurship side of things is like, how else can I create residual income, you know, trickles going on on the side or create side business and hustles that then support the other thing? So do you have any advice around helping filmmakers or. Yeah, photographers. DP's anyone who is thinking about, who is stuck in that mindset of, like, I make money by a day rate or said thing to break out of that.

Yeah, it's interesting because I think, like, the only way to kind of break out of that one, like, I've always been open. It's different for me because I do have kind of these other, like, businesses and ventures and things where I can, like, vertically integrate it. Right. So for example, if I have a, uh, director friend hit me up that wants me to dp something and it's below my day rate, like, he's like, hey, I don't have 1500 for you, but I got like 750. We're gonna do this. I need, uh, like, it's a day, we're gonna shoot this football thing. And I'm like, I always try and look at the bigger picture of everything, but I'm in a unique position to do that because I can go, okay, yeah, I'm going to go do that and I will shoot it with one of my filters from my filter company and I'm going to use that as an opportunity to market and promote my, uh, filters, which can make me money. I might not be getting my paid, paid my full day rate over here, but I will leverage that to make money over here. And so I'm in a unique position where I can like, vertically integrate everything, right? Like, even with my short film that I'm coming up doing. Like, I'm going to be spending a lot of money to make the short film, but I can also edit the short film with all of my tropicolor assets. While on set, we can get promo material of our new space shuttle that we just launched, offloading the footage onto that drive, which could help market and promote that. I'm going to shoot it with our filters. So now we'll have all this content over here. It's just like to promote the filters in that brand and we'll have social content for that. We'll put out a YouTube video behind the scenes for, you know, probably prism, one of those brands. And now people are getting insight into, you know, what it takes to make a short film while like, subtly promoting prison. So it's like I'm able to like, vertically integrate everything. And then, uh, this one, we're not shooting at one of my studios, but in the past we've also then shot at the eclectic west or honeymoon. It's like, and now my studio gets all of that promo and marketing. So it's like, because I have all these other things, like, I can vertically integrate stuff and have all these kind of trickle down stuff where, yeah, if you're a director, a DP, uh, or whatever, and you don't have anything that you can kind of vertically integrate or push or promote outside of that. I understand, like, you're just like, yo, like, I need, I need to get my day rate. But you also never know. Like, I've always been in the mindset of, like, bigger picture because you never know what could come. Some people get so stuck in the day rate thing. Like, let's just say they're like, oh, my day rates, thousand bucks. And if someone offers them $600, they're not going to do it. There's just not. Because they're like, no, that's not my day. Right? They'll pass on that job, but, like, you just never know who you could meet, what could happen, the relationship that you build on that job that leads to even a fatter check down the road. Like, and so I've just never, like, if people come to me and they're like, this is what I have. I've always, in the past made it work. I'm just like, cool, let's do it. Like, if that's what you have, like, you can't do more, run it. I just feel like has been so beneficial to me to have that mindset and not be so, like, narrow minded and stuck and like, ah, uh, that's not my rate not coming out, because I can't tell you how many connections and relationships and things that I've built through certain jobs like that that have led to a bigger payday or opportunity or a person. That person knows this person now. You just. You just never know. And so I think it's important. Like, obviously, you don't want to just always, always undervalue yourself, but try and be a little more open minded and not be so stuck on, like, yeah, it's not. I can't come out because I don't know if you feel the same, but I've just had too many things in my life where. Quick example, I was doing these run and gun videos for this producer from, like, uh, I think it was Maryland. And there was this one video. He was just like, I need you to fly to Maryland. I need you to direct, shoot, edit, color, do everything. And this is when I was, like, getting pretty busy. It's like, for two k. I was just like, fuck. Uh. I was like, but he'd been giving me a lot of good work. But it was like, this was going to be a lot of work for not that much money. I was like, screw it. Went. Did it. And the job that came after that, like, two months later, once I moved to LA from that same guy, was the biggest music video that I had ever directed. The biggest artist. E. Hollywood was there. Like, I was. I got to play with all these big boy toys. And, like, that job, that big budget job might have never come had I said no to that one, right? Like, so. Because I think the guy saw, okay, like, he killed it on no budget doing all this shit. He's dope. I appreciate him. I'm, um, gonna throw him this bounce pass. Hey. He was like, hey, I got this project. I showed him your. I showed the artist and management. You're real. They love it. Like, are you interested? And I was just like, yeah. So that's why I say, like, you gotta sometimes and shoot some money is better than no money, right?

Yeah.

At that point in my life, I'd rather not be at home doing nothing. I'd rather being paid a little less than what my day rate is and go network, uh, practice, hone my skills. Like, try some new techniques, whatever. Get creative. So that's just how I've always looked at it.

Yeah, I think my opinion is similar, but it's just about showing the value for me. It's ultimately like, yeah, on the invoice, like, show, like, yeah, this would have cost you ten grand, but I'm doing it for three, you know, and so that people know the value that you're bringing to the table and that, yeah, not that you're asking for something from in the future, but it's just, again, not to just be like, oh, well, now I'm a $3,000 guy versus a $10,000 guy.

There's some people that they might get paid something one time for something, and then all of a sudden it's like, that's their. Their floor. It's like, yeah, this is my rate now. And it's like, uh, it doesn't. In my opinion, it doesn't work like that, but go ahead. But I feel like that's why I've been able to maintain, like, for so long and build so many different things is because I've had a little bit more of, like, a open mindset to things. I've been in situations on the other end where I'm hiring someone that is like that, and it makes me not want to go back to that person, if you will. You know what I mean? Uh, especially when I've, like, worked with them a ton in the past, and maybe this one time they're. Now they're like, oh, my new rate's this. And it's like, well, I don't have that for this. Can you do this? They're like, no, sorry. And it's just like, bro, come on. Like, so, right? And then, yeah, never, never again will I probably hit them up. I'll just find someone else. So I don't know, because I've even from industry vets that I've talked to that I'm good friends with, like, people that have worked long time in the industry who've done some of the biggest, you know, music videos, and they're just not doing anything now. And it's just, I feel like a lot of it's that, uh, that mindset. And also maybe they're slightly assholes or dicks or some. I don't know. But, um, there's. There's a number of factors I could play into it, but I've seen it happen.

I mean, you're echoing a lot of what I've heard from many other successful DP's directors is, yeah, you're just, you're constantly putting yourself out there. Yes, it might not be the best thing ever to go shoot. In fact, shit, you might even be spending your own money to go shoot it. But I think it's important that as long as you resonate with the thing. So, for example, you probably did that project for two k, but you actually would put that in your reel. You wanted to show it to somewhere. It's not something you wouldn't talk about. Whereas it wasn't like a corporate talking head office video for or a toothpaste commercial or something. So I think that's another thing to hit home is just like, if you're doing it for cheaper, like, just make sure you, you want to talk about it and show it to the world, because therefore, then you're getting that residual kickback from your creative portfolio, I think.

Yeah, and I mean, I'm fortunate too, where it's like, because of the things that I've, like, built. I for a long time was able to and still can, like, say no to projects and not have to, like, battle to take something because I have to make rent or I have to do this job I don't really want to do, or I'm fighting to get that full day rate because even, you know, like, I can just be so picky and choosy with everything. Dude, I've shot an indie feature for free just because I wanted to do it, and I wanted to go shoot up in the Pacific Northwest, and I wanted to play with some new lenses. I fucking shot an indie feature for free. Never got paid. It was two weeks. But I was also then able to use, like, cool, I'm going to use my filters, prism. We're going to do this. Like, we'll put out a couple, like, course videos on, like, how we lit some scenes and stuff. Like, but I didn't get paid for that, and, but it was something I wanted to do and it was something I knew, like, I could, like, have fun with and get creative on and whatnot. And to me, that spoke to me, and I was like, I want to do that.

I think it really speaks to, like, layering those business models in because when one's quiet, the other one, you know, can support the other. And, yeah, I think it's just like, a beautiful thing of just creating multiple baskets.

A great example of that is, like, when the pandemic hit, obviously, like, all of our studios were crickets, you know, because no one's shooting or booking. And there was a lot of, like, booked shoots that ended up canceling or like, hey, can we, like, push to, like, a way later date in the foreseeable future? And so all of that just plummeted and died. But then on the inverse side, our cinematography course and our prism filters skyrocketed. So it's like while this one thing stopped, these other two things shot up and it didn't even matter. But if that's. If all I was doing was studios, running studios and doing film production, it would have been tough. But, like, dude, all of a sudden, just record years for the other stuff. So it's like, I think that's why it's important to kind of dabble in trying to diversify yourself, you know, as a creative because I'm sure you've heard it and other people have heard it wherever. Yeah, they do that one thing and it kind of gets a little quiet and kind of like, all right, what now?

Managing Multiple Businesses

So, yeah, and I mean, you have so many things going on. How do you crank so hard? I just, like, I look at what you're, the volume in what you're putting out and the level, the different businesses you're putting in. Is this like, this your personality? Like, where does this, where does this come from?

Yeah, that's probably my personality. I just, uh. I don't even know. I think, uh, I just do a really good job bouncing between things and doing a bunch of different things. It's just how my brain works. And I do have, like, good team members involved. It's not like I do everything solo. So my business partner in a lot of these businesses, uh, is very like minded, like me, very driven, got a big, strong, uh, work ethic and is also talented in all the areas that I'm not or not as talented in. And then my wife and then, yeah, a couple of the operations managers, like, that we've hired and people to handle, like, the backend stuff that eats away at your time. I used to, way back when, answer all the DM's myself. And then it started to get to a point where it's like, all right, this is consuming a lot of my time. I need to hire someone and so hire that person that frees me up to do this stuff. So, yeah, just kind of hiring people in the right places to, uh, handle the stuff that is very time consuming or that you don't necessarily want to do or focus on. So you can do the stuff that you want to focus on, that's been instrumental as well. I mean, even down to the, like, initially when we were first starting and launching prism for the first year or two, like, it was just me, Tom, and my wife now, but at the time, girlfriend just down there every day, packaging, grinding, shipping out orders. And then it got to a point where it's like, all right, we should probably hire a few people to do this and started hiring people, and so that freed us up. So, yeah, I mean, I do a lot, but it's not like I'm, like, working till 02:00 a.m. um, every night. I'm just efficient. And, yeah, focus on one thing, get that thing done. All right, what's the next project like? I look at everything. My whole life is kind of at this point now, like a passion project. It's like, what do I want to do next? It's like, okay, cool. We want to open up a prism lens effect store that looks like a blockbuster. And, like, let's focus on that. Oh, we want to build some new sets and renovate our barracks studio. Let's do that. And, like, we just kind of like, what? Uh oh, you want, let's go make a short film. Let's go do that. Oh, let's. Let's design a new filter for the end of the year. Okay, let's do that. Like, next week. Monday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. We have some new prototypes, and I just bought a new camera, and we're going to drive up to Monument Valley and then to Vegas and just, like, test and shoot these filters. But I can do that. So it's like, it's kind of funny. It's like everything at this point in my life is like, all right, what do I want to do today? And then just kind of go do it? And I'm able to do that because, yeah, the backend of things is handled by other people. If the backend business of things like scheduling bookings for the locations was on me, it'd be hard to go do that. Right. But, like, we have, we're the, like, the menial business tasks to keep things running and flowing are handled by other people so that I could focus on, like, creative, like, all right, what's the next thing that we're going to do?

Creating Systems and Processes

There's a nuance in there that I'd like to speak to because I am now starting to outsource a lot of the menial things. For example, this podcast is edited by someone else in the Ukraine and the producer in the Philippines putting these pieces together. But what I realized is that in the beginning you have to create the systems and processes for these people that to actually operate on. And that was a big learning curve for me. Even then. I just tried to start outsourcing Instagram feed stuff and I'm just like, oh man, there are so many things I need to write down and Google Drive to link to. I'd love to speak, you just speak to a little about the um, building systems and processes because hiring people to help is great, but they have to know what to do. So there's a whole learning curve there too.

Yeah, I think, I mean, I guess the easiest one we'll go to is like on the prism side, two of the kind of employees we have, one that handles like more of like the day to day operations from emails, wholesale orders, packaging and shipping, printing the slips. That's this one lady, Anna. Uh, and then we have this other guy, Marshall, who handles like the affiliate program and DM's and stuff. And initially it wasn't like we really built the systems, it was more of like, hey, this is how I want it to be and go. And we just talked about it and then he just kind of set it up and runs it, so, but it's been like, yeah, instrumental, but I've never, I'm not detail oriented and organized at all and like, I'm not, I don't like, like, I've never built a business plan in my life. I've never built like systems and stuff. So it's like, it's more of finding the person to, hey, here's what I want to do. Here's what I'm thinking. I'm going to put you in charge of that and you figure it out according to, like this is kind of what the overarching idea that I wanted and then I'll do it. So, yeah, that's kind of how we've done it and handled it. But yeah, I haven't like put together like ever any sort of plan step by step process links of drives, and here's our PDF file on how you do this. This, yeah, never done any of that.

Okay. Well, it sounds like we're wired a little bit differently, but I also see the benefit in your drive to just get things out the door. And that's the weakness I have is that I'm so detail orientated. I want to see all the systems and processes, the steps here, follow this, do that. But then, and it also blocks just like, how do I say, get the beta out and just test it and feel how it goes and let it screw up and then come back and reiterate, like, I feel like that's what I'm seeing you do over and over, and I need a bit more of that, you know?

Yeah, we, Tom and I always kind of joke about it. We're like, we always just, like, jump off the cliff and, like, learn to fly on the way down. Like, we just kind of, like, go for it with so many people, I think just over complicate things or overanalyze and then maybe freeze and don't do that thing because they're thinking about too many things. Or all of this stuff needs to be so perfect and dialed in before we launch or do this thing. And, yeah, we just kind of always, like, just jumped and gone all in. And sometimes that's bitten us in the ass. Like, don't get me wrong, like, it's not like everything we've done has gone flawlessly imperfect and whatnot. It hasn't. But, yeah, I'm always like, dude, I just, I just jump in and I go all in.

I mean, so you got so many different things going on. And as someone who also is starting to have too many things going on, how do you decide where to put your energy and divide it accordingly? Because, okay, you got seven to ten different businesses going on, but each of them requires a different problem to solve. Each of them. One of them is going to be making more money than the other. How do you, like, when you wake up each day, how you're like, I'm going to put this much time here, or ABCD. How do you figure that out?

I think it's changing now. Uh, in the past, it was kind of always just like, okay, what needs the most attention today? Like, what needs, uh, my priority? And then I would focus on that. And so it's like, today I'm focused on prism and this and that. Oh, shoot. This week we really need to focus on renovating and building these new sets at honeymoon or barracks or whatever. It's cool. Focus on the weekend for, and like, that week becomes that. It's not like I'm within that week building lots of sets also, then focusing on a bunch of stuff over here with prism and tropic or whatever, or even production stuff. It's like, I just kind of like, what needs my focus today? This week, focus on that. That's done. Move on to the next thing. Okay, what's priority right now? Oh, we need to get this working on tropic. Okay. Or focus on that and that's how it's always kind of been in the past, but. And honestly, kind of what it still is right now. I just kind of jump around to what feels like it's the most priority and work on that. Like I said, I'm not a very schedule oriented person. Like, I don't have a schedule. I don't have, like, a crazy to do list of this, this, this. And, like, I just kind of fly by the seam of my pants. And fortunately, we do have people in place, like, to, like, keep things in check, be like, hey, how are we doing on this? Or, what's the update on this? And then. But, yeah, it's just my brain. Everyone's different, right? Like, I just don't work in that organized way. Like you were saying, building systems. Like, I would never sit down and build out a system forever. You couldn't pay me to do that. Like, I would tell. I would hire someone and bring someone in and be like, hey, this is what we need. Get it done. Like, you know what I mean? So. But that's what you should do. You should focus on what you're good at. Like, that's not what I'm good at or what I like doing, so I shouldn't focus on that. I should bring in someone who could do that better than me or wants to do that, and then I should go focus on what I'm good at.

Yeah. I mean, it definitely sounds like your brain is more director visionary. You know, it's just like, you like to be, um, hovering above it all, seeing the opportunities, being like, oh, I could wrap that up in a bundle and do that thing. We could. Or could jump into that.

That's the one thing my wife says. She goes, you're so good at seeing opportunities. Like, she's like, I've never met anyone who, like, will see something and be like, oh, there's something there. If we do, like, you know what I mean? And so it's very much, like, high level. Yeah, director visionary. Like, I'm able to just like, oh, there's something here, and then formulate something around it, you know? So for sure, that's cool.

I mean, everyone has such a. Such a different skill set, so it's cool to see. It's obviously in your blood because you have so many different facets going on, and you're. Yeah, it, uh, surprises me. Like, I'm always blown away by people who have much organization or, like, structure to all that, and it's just. Yet I. Yet it's all working somehow. So I think that's, that's amazing.

Yeah, I mean, people try and tell you like, hey, here's how to be more productive. And it's like, just because someone's telling you how they're more productive doesn't mean that's going to make you more productive. You know what I mean? Like, uh, like I said, everyone's different. And what makes someone productive and organized and keeps them on track probably wouldn't work for me. So, yeah, take everything you hear, see with a grain of salt and try and find what, what works for you. And, yeah, for me, it's just, I think what also what makes you the happiest too? Like, I'm happy, the most happy when I get it. Just like bounce around and high level, like focus on things, come up with ideas and have people in place to help me bring that to life. And so that's what I focus on.

Selling Without an Audience

That makes sense. And I wanted to dive in for people because you have so many different resources, uh, around, like building your own thing, like, uh, whether that be physical or digital products, and helping people with this stuff. Now, if you don't have an audience like you do, I mean, sure you can go out and create a lut pack, but if you don't have an audience to push it to you, it's not going to go anywhere. So if you were just a DP photographer director, you know, wanting to do something more than just, you know, working for day rates, like, where would you begin?

I think this thing I see too early on is people trying to like, sell stuff without having built any sort of real trust with their audience. Like, that's the other thing too, people. It's funny, like just scrolling on, you know, Instagram and reels and seeing every single person telling you how to do something. Here's how to do this. And it's like, what have you really done or accomplished within your career life to have you tell people, like, this is how you do this. And I think it's important to, like, you have to build a little bit of like, um, a little bit of a portfolio, a body of work, and try and build an audience and trust with that audience before you just like, hey, buy this. Like, I think for long term sustainability and growth, that's what you need to do. Sure, you could create a cool lut, uh, or asset, make a cool reel that goes viral with that lut being tagged in the real buy this. Manny chatted auto links it to this and you might get some sales, but that's going to be a flash in the pan cool. Made some quick dollars, but that's not going to long term have any sort of like foundation for a business or a career, like, you know what I mean? And so like, for me, everything came from just a long period of time building these foundations that still remain solid to this day. Because I didn't just come out the gate, we didn't have. Social media was a little bit different even ten years ago, eight years ago than what it is now. But all that to say, everything was really centered around this foundation and this trust and this following on YouTube that I had built in this audience and people wanting to know things. And then I gave them something, but I didn't come out the gate just like, hey, buy this. Like, you know, if I, the first few videos had I ever posted on YouTube, I was just like, oh, and by the way, I colored with this, buy this. Like, all of the sales and the ideas for building tropic and the companies beyond came from just the uh, natural questions that people started asking of the work I was putting out there. Like I was, I didn't just come out the gate just like trying to sell stuff and push stuff. It uh, just kind of came naturally and organically and yeah, I think that's important. Like to build a real solid foundation and base and not just try and sell people stuff right away because that won't last. Maybe it could. I don't want to say it won't, but, yeah.

So is the answer then kind of like, I mean, building an audience is the foundation of selling anything? Is that what I'm hearing? Whether it comes to physical or digital?

Like, I think so.

Because like, why do all these companies partner with people that have following, you know what I mean? Like, or they're trying to tap into that, uh, audience, that trust. And that's why startups, they might get a bunch of money for marketing and obviously put ad dollars behind it, but then go pay people to talk about their product because they're trying to tap into those people's audiences because they don't have one. They're a new startup and they need to get eyes on their thing. So, yeah, I think, I mean, if you can build an audience organically in on any platform, whether it's like, yeah, TikTok, YouTube, Instagram, whatever, and then hit them with something down the road. Like once you've really built that trust, I think that's the way that you build something that has long term sustainability and isn't just like a year from now the algorithm changes and you're like shit like I don't have. Yeah, anything like, you know what I mean? So. And, yeah, I think you do that by, I think you do that by trying to provide as much value as you can. I mean, like I said, all my early YouTube videos were just like, basically videos on how I shot my videos, how I color them, how I edited them, showing them behind the scenes of how I was shooting them, um, like, what lenses I was using and why. So it's just like, there was just a foundation built there of just trust and educating people. And, um, yeah, I think if you can either entertain people or educate people, those are like, the two the main things of where you're going to build an audience. Initially, if you can be a source of education and inspiration, and then also, like, entertainment on the entertainment side, those are like, if you can do those and if you can do both together, that's like a winning recipe. But you got to build an audience if you want to try and build something. Because if I didn't have any audience and I tried to launch Prisma, one, we probably would have no sales, and two, I would have had to spend my own money or go get a loan or whatever to get the money to go pay other people to talk about it. And so, yeah, I mean, having that foundation and the audience built in over the years, absolutely allowed to take any one of these things from the very first studio. Like when, even when we opened the very first studio, I was like, was a huge risk. I just bought this house, spent probably 50 grand buying all this vintage furniture, painting, renovating, doing whatever. And it's like, what if no one comes to shoot here? But I had such a good, I had a bunch of colleagues within the industry, and I had, uh, a good following on social. So when I announced it's live and all my director DP friends are like, yo, I got a video. Is it available next week at, uh, that base from throughout my career of all those people. And then I also had the people that followed me that just wanted to come. Dude, Jake opened his spot. Like, I want to go shoot at Jake's spot. And like, that, that first month, it just took off and it led to us now having seven studios here years, a couple years later, so. And I get messages. I still get messages to this day of countless messages of like, hey, you inspired me to open my own studio. Uh, but I've also gotten a lot of messages, like, hey, like, my studio is not doing well. Do you know of anyone that would want to take it on or buy it or take over the lease or are you interested, like, since you have all these studios and I think people, you know, think like, oh, yeah, just going to open a spot and it's just going to make money and people are just going to shoot here and there's more to it than that. But again, why I think all of the studios have been successful is because of that audience that, uh, I built. I had someone, people immediately to push and market to one, people that were just in my circle from years of doing music video work and whatnot. Um, and just working on set with people, but then also the people on the Internet, too. And that was, I was able to build something successful because of that. And I don't think, I don't even think, I know it would not be what it is today or it wouldn't have launched the way it did without any of that. There's just no way.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense ultimately. Like, yeah, it's a tough one because I think a lot of people don't want to put in that energy and effort to build that audience or don't want to be in front of the camera. And that's like, it is a rare thing you've, you've done in the industry and kind of put your face on a lot of things, so, but it's, I get it.

I get it though, too, because I've also, I've been the, the face for a lot of hate and backlash and people that want to attack me and say mean things about me online. And, uh, that's happened to me a ton. So I get it because you're putting yourself out there and naturally, if you're doing anything good, bad, whatever, like, people are going to have something to say about it. And, yeah, I've had my fair share of, of people that just absolutely try and tear me down or say, you know, mean or hateful things on Instagram or YouTube or whatever. So I get it. Sometimes it's not a fun place to be in, ah, when you're being attacked and you're just like, dude, what the fuck? What did I do? So, right, right, so I get it because my wife, that's something my wife struggled with for a long time. She has seen the amount of stuff of negativity and negative things that people have said to me online or the way people have come at me online or whatever. And she has always wanted to, like, create content, but, like, it's like, that's just not especially seeing that she's like, yeah, I don't, I don't want any part of that, but she has just started to, uh, like, find a rhythm. She's been making a lot of content recently, like reels and stuff and posting to promote our studios and the different film locations because she runs them and manages them. And I'm like, you need to make content about that. Like, talk about that. Like, and she's like, I don't know, but she's finally getting into it and been really consistently. And it's like, it's definitely helping, you know, especially having a girl's perspective on things. And so, yeah, it's definitely already since she started making some content, you know, two months ago. And, uh, we've already seen an uptick in bookings or just, like, feedback on things, so it's important. But, yeah, I mean, case in point, my wife saw it firsthand. It was just like, yeah, I don't, I don't want to put myself, I don't want to be a part of that.

How to Avoid Burnout

So, yeah, it's tough. I think everyone has their own energetic experience with that. And whether they're going to turn the camera around or not is a big one, but it's not easy. It's definitely not easy. And with speaking to blocks specifically, I'm curious to understand something that I see you doing over and over is you're creating so many different business models, but there's always a block. Like, I know I can relate to this a lot myself. It's like, seems like you could have so many links to different shopping carts of said thing that you can purchase in so many different areas. There was at one point just an idea, and then it went all through this huge iteration, uh, with an available click buy button. How do you get through all those thousand steps that are going to show up naturally and not burn out on, oh, man, I got to create the website. And then, oh, this is breaking here. And how we get the payments. How do you get through all those blocks to get to the end click buy button?

I think it's just, it's having the right people on your team inside. Like, that's the stuff that I don't like, and I'm not necessarily the greatest at. And my business partner, Tom, um, loves that stuff. Like, he builds out the back end of the website. He's always coming up with finding the apps on Shopify that allow one quick upsells and builds out the back end of, like, hey, if someone adds this to their cart, like, hey, let's pitch them, like, to add this to their cart. And, like, so he's great at that stuff. He designs a lot of the emails. We have an email team, but he likes to, like, design the emails and hand it over to them to, like, you know, do the. Obviously, there's all this backend stuff where you can target people who open this email or bought this product but didn't buy that. Like, we have a team that handles that, but, like, tom, um, handles the design of that. Like, so he handles a lot of that stuff, which, if I was by myself, would make it very hard to do what I do. Like, there's just too many, like you said, there are so many different little things, and there are moments where things break, and, yeah, we have a chat, and almost every day there's, like, some sort of, like, hey, we need to fix this. Like, someone's not able to add to this to their cart because it's showing, like, you know what I mean? Like, you just got to have. Yeah. The people in place that can handle that because, yeah, if it was all on me, that stuff wouldn't get done.

So, yeah, that's a good answer. It's a good answer, ultimately. Yeah, it's about, like, I don't know if you've heard of the book who, not how, but it's just basically, just when you have the problem, it's like, who can help me? Not how, not how can I do it? And definitely sounds like, because you're the director and the visionary, that, like, you really have to. To hand off those little miniscule tasks and stay focused on your beautiful gift of seeing opportunity.

Well, I'm not comparing myself to Elon in any way, but Elon, do you think he's really on the line tinkering with this and that in the back end of the website? No. He's the overall visionary of Tesla and SpaceX, and he has the ideas. You put the right people in place that can get that idea and vision done. Uh, that's just, like, what. Yeah, you need to do to grow and scale anything. If Elon was in there by himself trying to do all of that stuff, it just. Nothing would get done. And so I know that's, like, a very summarized version of that, but, like. And that's the hard thing to find, though, too. Like, to find team members. That's the question I always get. It's like, okay, well, how do you find those people? And it's like, well, I found those people just through life experience and get on set. I met Tom on set. Like, so it's like, again, I think going back to like, you never know who you're going to meet on these potential jobs or do this or that. That could change your life. Like, actually, that's a fucking great example is I was doing a music video for this band. This is how I met Tom. I just moved to LA. This is 2013. I'm doing this music video. And, uh, the artist asked like, hey, can we have some, someone else come in and shoot it? And up to this point, I've shot, directed, edited all my own stuff, right? One man band, like, he has a red. We really want to shoot on a red. Uh, red was still new at the time, was a red scarlet. And I was like, cool, like, I don't want to be a DP anyways. Yes, I'm good at it and I can do it, but, like, I want to direct, so cool, I'll direct, he'll shoot it. He came in, we had a great time, connected, and he was just like, hey, like, and he wasn't getting paid for it. He just wanted to shoot, and they wanted. He was a friend of a friend, and they brought him in and he's like, hey, like, if you do this a lot, like, I'm really just trying to, like, shoot more. And he's like, it doesn't matter, the rate, whatever. Just, like, hit me up. And I was like, like, bet. And we just started working nonstop together. And then it came to a point where he saw, like, all of, like, my personal, like, lutz and the video guide and stuff that I was selling and my YouTube channel, and he was just like, I want to do something with you. What can we do? And that's when we sat down and built our first, like, like, 100 page PDF guide together. After working together for like, two, probably like, three years, and we put a big guide, digital PDF together of, like, how buff nerds produces shoots, like, tips, tricks, locations, all this, all this stuff, and put that together and put it out. And, like, the way, I think, like, the first day we launched it, we did like, $5,000 in sales, and I sent him $2,500, and he was just like, whoa, wait a second. Like, had he never even come to that video to shoot that video for free? And then we're just like, yo, anything, just let me know. Just like, uh, call me. Like, I'm down. And like, yeah, there were some days where absolutely free never paid him. Uh, because I just didn't have the budget with the artist, and he did it. There some days are $300, $500, $150. Like, he just, he didn't the money wasn't the issue to him, but that relationship, I mean, he's the partner and business owner and all of these things. And so without his effort into doing that and kind of just seeing the bigger picture, like, who knows if tropic prisms and the studios are even a thing to this day, who knows? Like, they could not be. And so, yeah, I think that's why it's so important, again, going back to, like, you know, trying to see the bigger picture on things, because you never know who you're going to meet. And that's how you meet your potential business partners. That's how you meet those people that could be your future team members is through stuff like that. It's not like I just, like, went on LinkedIn and found someone, and it was like, hey, you're going to be my business partner in this. And so we just built this relationship. I knew how he worked. I liked his work ethic. I liked his values. We'd been working for three to four years. We launched our first product. So when it came time to, like, start a real business and launch tropic color and form, that LLC is like, all right, we're doing this together. That's how we found each other. You know what I mean? That's how you find your business partner. That's how you find someone to build with. At least I think that's more like business partner related. Obviously, you can hire team members along the way to fill certain roles and whatnot, but I guess just in a overarching sense, finding someone to build with, because you, bro, uh, you need someone to build with. It's hard to build something on your own with no outside of. Sure, you could have a team member to help you do stuff, but they aren't passionate about that thing like you are. You almost need that other person to really build something great. It's tough. I mean, it's very rare that you find, like, a company where there was only one founding owner or CEO. Like, every. I won't say every, but most major companies, businesses have, like, a co founder or person that they started it together. I think that's instrumental, but, yeah, you find that just through those life experiences and getting out there, connecting and networking and working jobs. Working gigs.

Yeah, I think there's, as time and time again said over and over, it's never just the one person. There's this. There's a book called Traction. I don't know if you've heard it, but it talks about, like, the visionary and the integrator and just like the beautiful combination of those two people needing to, like, you are definitely the visionary. You know, you're seeing all the things, opportunities, but. And it sounds like you still need people to grab those things and stick them into tangible things like clickable shopping cart buttons and PDF's and all that. Like, back end website MacGyvery. So, like, I think there's something to be said. Like, partnerships are just so important when scaling and growing and so. Yeah, that really hits home for sure.

Absolutely. Yeah. You can't do it alone, that's for sure.

Yeah. And the other piece I want to dive into was staying, like, mentally and physically healthy. I think, you know, you do show a lot of this stuff online, just working out and, you know, recently and I think you, you just had twins. Am I. Is that right?

Yeah. Year and a half ago.

Yeah, a year and a half ago. So, you know, you're a dad or busy dad. Like, I'm curious. I'd love to. To paint a picture here. So I'm assuming you're waking up probably early. Kids might have been crying all night. You're a bit of sleep deprived. Like, what is Jacobs, like, morning routine to. Yeah, step from, like, living a, ah, balanced family life to like, then into the business and then back home and staying physically fit. Like, what does that look like for you?

I kind of talked about this on my instagram story the other day. I feel like someone was like, oh, what's your morning routine? And I was like, well, my morning routine is probably not going to work for you or necessarily apply to you because, like, I think my morning routine has always varied depending on, uh, what stage I am at my life. And now it's stage of my life I'm at now. Yeah, I wake up relatively early, probably 06:00 a.m. i built a home gym in my garage. So me and my wife will go in there, usually a light workout or stretch and just talk. Then we make breakfast for the babies. I go wake them up, bring them down to the kitchen. Usually sometime in there before that too. I do like a devotional and read my bible, but then make breakfast, hang out with the babies, feed them, and then for that first hour from like seven to eight, just kind of hang out with them. If it's not hot, hot outside. Right now it's hot because it's summer and az, but go on like a morning walk.

So that'll.

We'll probably start doing that again here. Yeah. Then right now we just hired like a nanny a few months ago just so that you know, I could get right to work at like eight. I usually start coming to my office here, start work at like eight. And then, um, yeah, kind of go throughout the day and just work in until around probably 04:00 I kind of shut it down. Yeah, just. But from that window of eight to four, I mean, it's something different every day because I obviously do a bunch of different stuff. So it's not like on the work side of things, it's like so regimented. It's just always doing different stuff. But, yeah, I mean, that's kind of my morning in a nutshell. And then, yeah, I usually every night watch a movie on my, in my movie room before I go to go to sleep. So that's kind of like a rough, rough day in the life, but. Oh, I was just gonna say, yeah, uh, and then like evening time, it's like, yeah, shut it down at four. My wife usually cooks dinner and then like, I hang out with the babies while she does that. We feed them bath time. PJ's play for like 30 minutes, put them down to sleep. So pretty hands on. And even throughout the day too. There's moments, obviously, I was just, I was telling you earlier when, before we start recording, it's like I work out at home currently, and it's like, yeah, there's lots of moments throughout the day where I'm popping in and out to just help in certain instances. Because when you have toddlers running around screaming, it's a lot for one person to handle. So, yeah, I mean, it's something new and different every day, but that's kind of like, in a nutshell. Like, yeah, my morning routine slash. Oh, and then I do work out. Yeah, my bad. Usually somewhere between twelve and two, the kids are taking a nap. So that's usually somewhere in that window is like, I'll go into the gym and then do like a harder, like, workout. Cause the morning time, it's like I'm still like, waking up and it's like, hard to, like, really push myself. Like, hard. Like, I like to. So, like, yeah, mornings kind of stretch, light workout, whatever, hang out, uh, sauna maybe, whatever. And then the afternoon, I usually, it's usually only for about 30 minutes. I just go as hard as I can for 30 minutes. I think a lot of people have the misconceptions, like, oh, I need to go to the gym and spend an hour and a half. Like, I usually set a timer for 30 minutes and I just go really hard. And, um. Um, yeah, I take care of myself too. Like, I eat well, I daily vitamins, smoothies, um, um, I don't, I mean, it's not to say I don't eat junk here and there, but I do a good job taking care of myself. And I think that's, that's important and hence why I built the gym in my garage and I got a sauna. And fitness has always been a big part of my life and super important. I think also, I think it also helps me just get so much done. Like, you know, just being like, I'm not, like, I never take naps. I just feel like if you're in a prime healthy state, like if you take care of your body, you work out, you're not going to be that person. Like, oh, I'm tired, I need a nap. The people that are tired of need naps. The reason you're tired and you need naps is because you don't take care of yourself and so your body needs to sleep. And so I know a lot of my best ideas have come when I'm in the gym or the sauna. Like I just think it's such an, you know, when the door, your endorphins and blood is flowing and pumping, it's just, I just think it's a crucial, and I talked about this like we as parents too, like now that I'm a parent, like, you have to set an example for your kids. And it's like, I went to a play place the other day like with my kids and I would say 95% of the parents were overweight, fat or out of shape. And it's like, and a lot of the kids, little kids, like five years old, just, just fat. And it's like, it's so sad. Lenins, like I want to set a good example for my kids and teach them that being healthy is important. I have friends that are nurses and they talk about like the number one killer is heart disease and heart related things because people are overweight and obese. And I just think it's something that doesn't get talked about a lot, especially in the creative space and the filmmaking space. It's like, oh, we're artists, we create. And fitness is like who cares about that? And like, you know, everyone fucking chain smokes and vapes and this and that. Like it's just, I don't agree with that and I think you should take care of yourself. Uh, it's benefited me and my life in so many ways and I want to be here for a long time and I want to be a good example for my kids. And, yeah, it's just important to me. Hence why my YouTube channel when I created is the buff nerds. Like, I've always been an athlete, but I've always geeked out and nerded out about film camera stuff. So I've been trying to, like, walk this fine line of sharing some of that stuff on Instagram without beating people over the head with it, because it's like, like, hey, yo, dude, we follow you for, like, film shit, not to see your ripped six pack, and you talk about what workouts you do, so. But I do get a lot of feedback on the back end of, like, yo, like, more workouts or, like, thank you for sharing that you're such a motivation. Like, I need to. I, like, you're one of the reasons I'm trying to get in better shape. And so I do want to promote that and be that source of inspiration for people, but I also don't want to, like, become a fitness influencer. You know what I mean? So it's like trying to. Trying to walk that fine line.

Yeah, I feel like you're one of the first people I saw kind of in the filmmaking world. Like, talk about fitness way back in the day, and I feel like I probably bought your PDF when it first came out. I don't know how many years ago that was, many, many years ago. But I was just like, oh, I resonate with this guy because I'm, um. You know, fitness is a huge part of my life, and, uh, it is how I keep my creative mind juices going. It is a daily routine. You know, I have the same principles as you that, like, you know, get that 30 minutes in each day, you know, whether that's a, like, a simple calisthenics, like, home workout and, like, a quick couple k with some running shoes. Like, it's not that hard. You don't have to go to the gym and do the multi hour thing and lift heavy. That's fun a few times a week, but, like, doesn't. You know, it doesn't. You can't. It's not an excuse. And I'm often preaching to other filmmakers who are just like, oh, you're. I'm on the road. I'm, um, in hotels. I'm eating shitty food. And it's like, yeah, I also did that for a year, for one summer. And I made sure, like, after set and before dinner, I snuck in, like, a 1520 minutes. It, you know, calisthenics, something on, um, you know, in the hotel room and threw down a towel you know, just, like, just do it. You ha. You can't make excuses. Like, make it small, simple, and. And repeatable.

Yeah. And it's. There's time in the day for that. Like, you know what I mean? Like, especially, it's like, if I can do it or if someone, like, the rock can do it, like, you know, someone who. You don't do stuff, or you make excuses for things that aren't a, uh, priority to you. So when you're like, oh, I would like, I've gotten messages where people are like, oh, uh, I just don't have time. I work a long job. It's like, no, you have time. It's just not a priority to you. Like, because if it. You would have time, if it's a priority, you'd wake up 30 minutes earlier and go for a walk, or you would not watch Netflix for 2 hours at night before you go to bed and go do even just 15 minutes of push ups or sit up something. And so there's always time for it. It's just, if you say you don't have time, it just means it's not a priority. And I've been there. There's been times where maybe I wasn't super motivated, and I've always been in good shape. But you go through peaks and valleys in life and moments of, like, there was even a moment where it's like, well, why am I training this hard? I'm not in college anymore. I'm not training to be a professional athlete. I'm not training to do any bigger thing, like run a marathon or do this or that. Like, so it's like, yeah, maybe my five workouts a week scaled back to, like, three week, and then I kind of got out of rhythm and started doing two a week. It's like, all right, now I need to kick. Like, oh, um. It's just. I'm just busy with all these music videos and busy with. It's like, no, you're just not making it a priority. And so. So, I mean, I know that's the case because I've been there, but, yeah, I think it's important. I think it's important. I'm excited to touch, uh, on it more. I think. I think I'm at a good spot in my life where I can talk about it now, because it's like, dude, I'm a dad. I've got all these businesses. I'm doing all these things, and look how fit I am. And there's no reason you can't do something. Like, if I'm doing it, and especially now that I have, like, the home gym and everything, I feel like I'm in a good spot. And it's funny enough, I just had a fitness company brand reach out to me, and they want to, like, sponsor me. And so, like, last week, so they want to fly me out to their gym in Florida, and they've already sent me a bunch of product, and we're about to sign something and do something where I'm just going to be an ambassador for them. And so that also gives me a reason to talk about it more, um, and whatnot. But, uh. And I'm training for a marathon, and just because I feel like I needed something to, like, deciding to run a marathon, it's like, okay, now I have a reason. Like, I have to train in order to finish a marathon. Like, I needed something to push me to do that, because when you don't have something to motivate or push you, it's very easy to be like, I don't need to do that today because you don't. But, like, if you're gonna go run a marathon, you fucking better go train, because otherwise you're gonna be out running that marathon, and you're not gonna be able to finish it, and you're gonna be dying. So I think it's important, too, to also, like, set certain, like, create certain goals for yourself or set a challenge. Like, oh, I'm gonna go. I want to enter a half marathon, or I want to enter a weightlifting competition, whatever it is. Like, try and find something that you can find motivation to go. Yeah. Like, work towards. And so that's been instrumental for me is, like, since I decided to run that marathon, it's like, all right, I need to step, step my, uh, fitness it up. I've always been good and very consistent at it, but I've definitely, like, ramped it up recently.

Yeah, I mean, I 100% agree. It's like, figuring out the thing that's going to motivate you enough. Like, some people need the, hey, let's, uh, go to the gym with a friend like us. I'll meet you there at this time. Or, oh, hey, if I miss this, like, if I don't hit the gym three times or go for x amount of runs, I owe you this amount of money. Or, like, it's just like, finding your motivators, you know? It's like, it could be social pressure. It can be m money motivation. It could be, uh, you know, guilt. I don't. Whatever. There's, like, healthy and unhealthy motivations, but setting, like a goal of doing a marathon, like, yeah, that's like a I better show up ready for this or I'm going to get my ass kicked kind of scenario. And so, yeah, I've done that in the past, too.

Like, there was a moment where, with one of my friends, like, I've, who's always been a, uh, he played d one football, and he was trying to lose weight and I was trying to get bigger, and he's like, yo, first one to 2200 pounds wins, you know, $100. Like, whatever. It's just some little goal. Like just creating, uh, creating enough of that, like, little challenge and motivator. Like, I'm going to.

Yeah, right.

I'm going to win this. Like, and so that helped. And, I mean, that was years ago, but it's like, you have to find those. Yeah, those people, those things, those challenges, those markers to, like, have a north Star goal to, like, work towards. Otherwise, it's kind of just like going through the motions, if you will, or it's just hard to, like, really push yourself when you have nothing to, like, try and go get.

Yeah. And healthy competition with a friend for $100 is sometimes all it takes. So, uh, that's true. That's more. That's more what I would work for. So we've talked a lot about the physical. What about mental? I mean, you heard, I heard you briefly mention, like, a devotional in your morning routine or something like this. But is there anything I don't know from, like, you know, meditation to just taking space to let your brain, you know, away from all the things, like, is there anything you're doing in your practices?

Nothing. Yeah, I don't do anything crazy like meditate. I've thought about doing meditation, but I just haven't, uh. I guess the things I do would be just kind of that morning quiet time, like when I read my bible, do my devotional and sauna. Honestly, when I sauna, like, I just get in there, I sweat, I close my eyes, I do breathing exercises. Like, I'll do, like, breathing, uh, just big, deep breaths, hold and blow it, like. And that just kind of like quiet time. Just work, breath, work. And. But that's probably it when it just comes to, like, kind of just like, like, mental stuff, is that. But I absolutely love the sauna and just getting in there, sweating, stretching, breathing, focusing on also just goals in general, like, what do. Just thinking about my life in general. Like, uh, I guess it's kind of a form of meditation in a way, you know, but not, maybe not the most traditional sense of, like, just sit there, like, trying to clear my head and.

Yeah, I mean, you're putting yourself in a box. You're clearing up the distractions. There's no phone in there. You're dripping sweat, you're letting your releasing endorphins. You're connected to yourself and your mind, your thoughts, and doing a bit of breathing. I. Yeah, that's like, that's honestly one.

Of the smartest, like, the best things I ever purchased. Was that the home sauna? Because, like, I had a gym membership for a while to specifically just, it was a sauna. It was a gym that had a sauna that I really liked. And that's the only reason I paid. I didn't go work out there because I had my home gym here. I would literally just drive there to go to the sauna and then drive back home. It's like, I just need to get my own fucking sauna. This is ridiculous. So I did it, and it's just like, oh, I love it. And it's like, yeah, if I'm stressed out or bad day or just like, oh, um, I'm tight, I'm sore. Like, just, just go in there.

And that's the reset button.

Yeah, no, it really is. I love it.

Jakob's Current Project

Well, um, as we begin to just come close to wrapping things up, is there anything that's really firing you up right now that's like, this forefront?

Honestly, just the film that I'm working on, the short film, and then the film contest itself, like, every year. This is like, one of my favorite, favorite things that I do. And, yeah, I'm just really excited about the idea for my film as well. Like, it's just an idea I've had for a while. So I'm just excited to direct that, put that, bring that to life, and then put this contest together and then, uh, that's probably just what I'm most excited about right now. There's other little things too. Like I said, like, we're opening a prism lens effects store and, like, just kind of building that out to look like an old school blockbuster. And so there's other, like, little side projects that are exciting and looking forward to right now throughout the different businesses. But just most pressing, I'm just, like, eager to go make this film because it's been a year since last year that I made my last film, short film. I did a Halloween fan film for the contest and shot it at my eclectic west ranch. But, yeah, it's been like a year. But again, that's why I like this contest, because it gives me a reason to go do what I love to do. And, like, all right, this other stuff put on hold Imma, uh, I'm gonna go do this. So I'm excited for that.

Much, like, the goal of the, uh, goal of the marathon. It's a similar thing, right? You have that.

Yeah. If you don't set. Yeah. If there's no target, then you're not. You're not ever gonna do that thing. And so it's like, this contest is kind of that target, that goal. It's like, all right, like, I have to go make a film, and I'm gonna go, this is it. And you just start working, working towards that. So, yeah, without any sort of north star goal, it. Yeah. Whether it's physically or. Yeah. Job, uh, related, business related, or, you know, art related, like, it's. It can be tough to, like, actually go do that thing. So, yeah. Looking forward to that. I'm excited.

That's awesome. Yeah. If people want to go find you, where can they find you? I mean, honestly, I don't even just say that because I feel like you're on every single facet and corner of the Internet. But, uh, how do people find you?

Just, I think the easiest way is at Jacobons on Instagram. Jacob is with a k. That's like the hub for everything. I mean, you guys can find me on YouTube, too, I think. Just Jacob Owens on YouTube as well. But Instagram is where I kind of post, tag, promote, share everything that I'm doing across the board. So, yeah, just. Just there.

Awesome. Thanks so much for coming on the show today, Jacob. Really appreciate this. This has been awesome chat.

Yeah, thanks, Marshall.

Okay. That was director and entrepreneur Jacob.

Jacob Owens.

Jacob has been able to build and grow so many cool businesses, and his approach to building a personal brand and name for himself has been quite inspiring. I encourage you to check out some of his work and businesses on Instagram, acobowens, or on his website, directorjacobowens.com. or you can check out his shop full of physical and digital assets, specifically for filmmakers at Tropic. In efforts to continually grow this podcast and help you make a living doing what you love, I have a request. I want you to dm me on Instagram, uh, arshialtrupa, and let me know what is the one thing you are struggling with most and why is it so painful? Learning what my audience is struggling with can help me dive deeper in future episodes with guests that I bring on and ultimately help us grow as a community. In future episodes, ill be speaking with photographers, cinematographers, directors, producers, reps, and anyone who has decided to take this ambitious leap of faith at making a life and a living behind the lens. Stay tuned and subscribe to the podcast on your favorite channel. And if you heard something you love, please share it with a friend. Thanks for listening, and we'll catch you next time on shotless.