26. Israel Rivera | Director / Photographer / DOP
In this episode, Marshal speaks with Israel Rivera, a photographer, director, and DOP with a rich career spanning back to the film days of the 70s. We'll explore how his love for photography shaped his life, as well as the highs and lows he experienced on his journey, including the struggles of leaving his conventional life and family business behind.
This episode is packed with valuable insights as Israel shares advice on how to start building good relationships, how to deal with feast-or-famine periods in the industry, and the essential skills photographers need to succeed. Tune in to hear Israel's exciting stories about making a life and living behind the camera for more than 20 years.
Episode Highlights:
3:20 Getting to know Israel
13:31 Israel's First Job in the Industry
15:10 Transitioning Into Photography
19:39 Building Good Relationships
22:52 Getting Interested in Motion Works
26:47 Insight Into Owning Gears
34:30 Dealing with Opportunities
42:17 Creating Work for Yourself
44:25 2,000 vs 200,000 Photographer
46:38 Skills Needed by Photographers
48:35 Dealing with Pushbacks
51:23 Feast-or-Famine Periods in the Industry
55:39 Advice to Younger Self
🔗 CONNECT WITH Israel Rivera
📸Instagram | @israelrivera 💻Website | www.israelrivera.com
🔗 CONNECT WITH MARSHAL
📸Instagram | www.instagram.com/marshalchupa 💻Website | www.marshalchupa.com 👥 Linkedin | www.linkedin.com/in/marshal-chupa-99a7921a8
📄 SHOW NOTES & TRANSCRIPT
Visit the website for the transcript and highlights from the conversation - www.shotlistpodcast.com
🎙 ABOUT THE PODCAST
This podcast is all about helping emerging cinematographers, photographers, and directors navigate the challenges of making a life and a living behind the lens. From workflow to personal growth, creative vision to marketing, finances to production—every episode is packed with a wide range of topics to support visual storytellers in their pursuit of building a business and growing a career they are proud of.
🎧 LISTEN FOR FREE Apple Podcasts | https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/shotlist/id1645435800 Spotify | https://open.spotify.com/show/3m5203Y5yQ7wNXQhZBOmNV?si=f46bc0e937bf40c1
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📱 GET IN TOUCH
You can also drop me a DM instagram @marshalchupa or email marshal@marshalchupa.com
Transcript
Introduction and Welcome
I think we become something else when we put our eye to the viewfinder. It's an unconscious feeling. I've always found it hard to, to explain. I mean, I can see, I can create images and, and think about images before that, but when, when you put your eye to the viewfinder of any camera, it becomes, uh, something else.
It becomes two dimensional obviously, of course, but, but there's something there that happens within, within your yourself that I think it's very difficult to explain to people who do not do it. Hello, and welcome to another episode of the shot list podcast, where we talk about how to make a life and a living behind the lens.
I'm cinematographer Marshall Chupa. And today I'm speaking with director, photographer and DOP Israel Rivera. In this episode, Israel and I dive into the evolution of his career starting back with film in the 70s and the struggle of leaving his conventional life and family business behind. The importance of confidence and self belief and how it is the very backbone of why people trust and hire us.
Why we must all keep the spark and fire alive in ourselves through both the highs and the lows that will inevitably happen along the journey and knowing that when we choose this creative path as a career, we are signing up for a lifestyle and not a job. Israel was such a pleasure to speak with and his kind and charismatic way of going about life and his work definitely showed through, making it obvious how he has been able to make a life and a living behind the camera for over 20 years.
I'm excited to share this conversation with you. Let's dive in.
Well, Israel, thanks so much for coming in the shotless podcast today, uh, excited to have you here. Marshall. Um, it's a pleasure. It's been a joy to be able to do this with you. Yeah. We most recently met in Christina forces photography, commercial bootcamp, which I think we're on week six of eight right now. And uh, for anyone who's listening, Christina is on episode 18. If you want to check out what she's about, but we're in a group of, I think there's two Is there 10 of us, maybe, from around the world? Yeah, 10 or 12 of us. 10 or 12, yeah. Lovely bunch. Yeah, lovely bunch. And, uh, yeah, I most recently met you and I thought, you know, it'd be really awesome to have you on.
I think some of the conversations you've brought up in our group have been really valuable. So I thought what a great opportunity to have a chat on the mic. Yeah, thanks. It's um, the whole process has been really enjoyable actually, especially the last few, few weeks. Uh, I think, uh, we've all sort of had this really revealing moments throughout the whole, I know even with you as well, you know, you sort of had to deal with some, some things as well.
It's really lovely to be inside of a A group of people with, um, very similar scenarios dealing with stuff within our industry. So it's really great. And now I'm doing this with you. Yeah, exactly. You never know where things are gonna lead, right? So it's, it's really nice to be able to share, say, like a tight container of people who are striving professionally and working towards similar goals and yeah, being able to share Suggestions along the way. I mean, that's kind of what this podcast is about in general. So yeah, it's been really cool to have you in that group and to be able to meet everyone and collaborate, but I would love to dive into for those
Getting To Know Israel
who don't know you, who are you and what do you do? Well, um, my name's Israel, as you pointed out, I'm based in Australia, but I was born in Spain. I've been a photographer Cinematographer and director for a little while now. I've been in the industry for a long time. What's a little while? Oh, probably about 25 years. Close to that. Yeah. Right. So you've kicked a few cans around the block. A few. Yes. I've kicked a few of those around. I'd say it's been a big evolution of, um, of my career. It's been, A journey. Let's just put it that way. But it's been great too. I absolutely love my job. I wouldn't do anything else. I don't know how to do anything else to be honest, I think. So I really truly love it. It's been wonderful. So if we rewind it to the very beginning, how did this start out for you?
Well, I think I've always had a camera with me. It's something that interested me as a child. Um, my father used to have a little Kodak camera. I used to watch him take photographs and, and then weirdly super eight film sort of came around and that sort of took over as well. In some ways, this is dating back to the, to the seventies, of course, and yeah, there's always been some photography or something in my life.
I also, you know, Used to love, um, I think story making. I used to create a lot of stories and things like that. Even thinking back with my sister, we used to do crazy things like that. It was always interesting, especially on a weekend, we would create stories and sometimes act them out. And so deep down, I think we were always into these kinds of stuff.
It was pretty intuitive and quite natural. But You know, with age and times changing, we start doing things more seriously. I, I started playing with, um, film cameras probably in the late eighties, I'd say. And actually it was emulating, uh, advertising. So I used to get a real kick out of fashion photography and advertising shots in magazines.
It's something that really fascinated me. I'm a very young age, but I became a house painter. Okay. How old were you when this all, when the more, so we have a timestamp on like age of your progression of the journey. So I was a house painter from about the age of 17. So my parents being immigrants and, and all that into another country had a very different uh, approach to society and how things are done.
And you know, it was very different times. There wasn't probably the support or the. resources. Yeah, it just, it was a very different time. And I ended up becoming a house painter and part of the family business. But I, I have to say that I was a very frustrated one because I was very artistic. And It was never satisfying, uh, I became very good, but no, no, it wasn't very good.
So this would have been probably late eighties, I'd say something like that into the nineties. I, I was surfing quite a lot, doing a lot, a lot of surfing and, uh, photography was a part of that as well. So I would, um, I would start to shoot. You know, sunrises and water and things like that, and my friends, and then eventually I started to film some of the surfing from shore with big long lenses or, you know, attachments to lenses and stuff like that with, um, video, eight cameras.
And then, I don't know, like, um, I made a little trip, uh, in the nineties. I got married very young. Um, my wife and I got married in the early to mid nineties and 94. We've just had a 30th wedding anniversary, which is great. Wow. Good on you. So I sort of feel we'll, we've done a few things back to front and we got married young and then we decided to travel.
I went back to Spain in 1997, reconnected with my family and something happened there. I don't know. Something really, really happened. I took a camera with me. I started to see photography in a very different context. When I went back to Spain, we also went to France as well on that trip. And by the time I Came back to Australia from that trip, but I decided it was time that I changed what I was doing and I applied for university and I got into a photographic degree and about a year later, I submitted my portfolio.
And I spent the next four, four and a bit years doing, um, you know, photography studies. What did you think about that? Because I have, uh, mixed feelings about, like, going to school for photography. What was that time like for you? And did you, would you say it was a very important part of the process for you?
At the time I think it was, it was because I had spent so much time painting, you know, and I sort of wanted to be, I think, feel just a little bit more relevant about what I was doing, you know, and study. I mean, I, I finished basically high school, went straight into painting. So, so it was a part of me that felt like I cheated and didn't give it all. And, and. Maybe a little bit manipulated by my father in some ways, you know, that I had to go and do what I did. And I mean, I have no regrets either, by the way, it's just the way it sort of happened for me. But, um, college was a confusing time because I, you know, we were still young. We had not, didn't have much money.
And there was a, even tension in my house as well with my father at the time, you know, in the business, I would say. And, um, I enjoyed it. I made lots of really cool, cool friends at university and I had some really good teachers. Sometimes I didn't agree with them. I was already in my 20s and I had my own ideas, but I took everything they gave me on board.
It definitely allowed me the exploration to, to become who I am today in some ways. And, but I do think, uh, and I think probably what you're sort of saying is, I mean, university can only teach you so much. I think, uh, photography especially is a very instinctive and quite a, um, natural thing that, um, you have to grow into and allow it for it to grow around you because it is, has to be intuitive.
It's an emotional expression. It's not just a physical one. But I think when that happens and you find it happens, it's happening to you. It's very liberating. University sometimes can, can sort of try and constrain that and make it all about, you know, chemicals and make it about, uh, other things and that's great, but that's only there to, to enhance all those other abilities that you should have when you're doing this stuff.
Yeah. I think my personal experience with photography school and, uh, you know, this is almost a decade ago that I also, I started a two year photography diploma and I remember them telling us when we started out saying like, Hey, you know, there's a pretty high percentage of Dropouts, you know, in this program.
And I remember thinking like, Oh, there's no way I'm dropping out. This is all I want to do. Of course, I'm going to do this program start to finish. And then, uh, you know, one semester and I was like, you know, three of the six courses were accredited. So like math, art history and communications. So 50 percent of what I was doing wasn't even to do with photography.
And I really struggle with that. And, um, I spent one day assisting someone. Yeah. Yeah. during that semester. And then in that one day, I learned more than I did in the entire semester. So I was like, I had a tipping point moment where I was walking home and I was just like, I sat down on the sidewalk and I was like, okay, I'm going to write down everything I can think of that would actually make me successful as a photographer without school. And then I went back to the Dean of the program and, and dropped out. So that was my journey story with like, I'm going to, I'm not giving up on this, but I don't think this chalkboard and. Pen or, you know, chalkboard way of learning is for me. So yeah, that's what I'm just curious to hear about your experience, you know, with school and and how it went for you.
It was definitely a little bit like that. I actually had conflicts with some of my teachers because I wanted to do more and they weren't, I guess, progressive enough for me as well. You know, they were quite conservative. And I definitely had flair, like it was definitely there. I mean, even looking back at my portfolios, you know, the, the, the flair was definitely there at the time and I just didn't know how to harness it. And, you know, it was also talking analog days when there was all film, there was digital was only making its presence, um, you know, Very quickly though, but it was, it was just in the surfaces. It wasn't, it wasn't a thing, you know, Photoshop was just becoming something as well. So everything back then was still either emulsion based or, or chemically or.
Yeah. So it was a very different time, but for me, you know, like, um, sort of going back to the family side of things, uh, I had a very big fight with my father. I quit my job about, um, four months after my son was born. And, uh, Was a very lost person. I remember and I had to one of my teachers. Her name was Latice and I said, I need to, I need some guidance.
I need some work. I need something. And so she was actually a, um. A wedding photographer, and I started doing weddings with her sometimes for free, actually just helping her out, right? And I realized that I was, um, very good at, um, also doing those things. So I did a little bit of that on the side for some time. But yeah, I mean, I, I had no idea what I was doing. I quit my job with my dad, which I've been doing for a very, very long time. And then eventually. I ended up having to go and paint for somebody else, and I spent two years doing that, and um, doing the old little wedding here and there where I could, and then many years later I, I decided that, uh, I needed to do this, uh, Bit more formally, I, I actually inherited the clients from a photographer, local photographer here was actually moving to Japan and he gave me all these clients.Interesting. Yeah. He was doing, um, uh, actors headshots and things like that.
Israel's First Job in the Industry
So I ended up starting to do acting headshots for 20 bucks a head, basically. But I learned so much from doing that. And it was my first job. Basically, you know, okay. And, um, I ended up doing that for a little while and it taught me how to light taught me how to interact with people, how to tap into the, into the psyche or try and get extract performances out of them.
And I did that for a long time as well. And then eventually. I started to experiment with, um, fashion photography, which is a thing that I was very good at. And, um, I tapped on the shoulder of a few designers and things like that, started to do some really lovely work. And it was actually then the models who then went to modeling agencies, told them about me, what I was doing.
And then I ended up doing model testing and things like that for them. And then there was this progression where I just, the work became a bit more, I don't know, professional looking as well. And this is still in the age of magazines. So being relevant, man, you need to, to be published. Basically, there was no social media. There was no other outlets apart from being published. So if you're important, if you're good, you have been published basically, or you had billboards or, you know. advertising somewhere else, but I ended up getting my work published, you know, and started working for magazines and started doing it. So it was this progression basically, but that's why I said I've always started everything.I was already in my late twenties, early thirties when all that was happening.
Transitioning Into Photography
Yeah. So what was the tipping point then? So, you know, are you still side hustling painting essentially and then you're photographing headshots, getting into fashion, dabbling in the two for income and then was there, is that kind of how it went?
For a little while, but, uh, eventually I actually quit on a Wednesday with all days. It was a bit of a weird one. I was just wrapping up a job because I started my own painting business at the time, but it was just not satisfying enough for me. I was so frustrated creatively and all I can think about is that I, Oh God, I know I'm going to make a lot more money doing photography.
I'm good at it. You know, you have to believe in yourself that. That you were really good at what you're going to do. And I had this in a belief that I was going to do very well at it, that I had the skills and also the flair to be able to take it to the next place. And I quit on a Wednesday at lunchtime and I felt this weight off my shoulders.
It felt good because I already had some clients. I knew that I was still growing it. I knew that I could evolve it. I knew that I was going to, to succeed at it. I was pretty positive. It's almost like I'd been manifesting it all. in some weird way. And it did. It did sort of happen that way. I don't like to call it cocky, but it felt, I felt very confident that I was going to do something as well.
Yeah. I mean, self belief is such a huge part of being a freelancer, being an entrepreneur, being a creative. Like if you don't have that belief in yourself that you're going to make something out of nothing most days, you don't, I don't think this works. So it sounds like you had that little inner voice saying, like, do this, you got this. Yeah, I did. Yeah, it was, um, it's funny because I haven't really thought about this for such a while, you know, until today, but it's true. When you think back now, I go like, uh, it was all there, you know, and if I hadn't put down that paintbrush on that Wednesday afternoon. I don't know where the rest of the, you know, my life would have been so, but it was really exciting.
It was, it was scary. You know, he's not scared when they're doing stuff. Of course. Yeah. So did you see an opportunity to make just enough income? Is that how you were like, okay, I'm putting down the paintbrush on this Wednesday or how did you What made you make that leap, you know, or showed you the path from maybe a financial perspective?
Because I think that's a lot of what obviously, you know, younger people are struggling with is how do I make that leap? I'm good at making photographs, but like, well, how am I going to do this financially? At the time, I felt that I was going to make About the same amount of money or equal or maybe even a little bit more than I was gonna be making painting.
Plus, I also felt that I had the, the time to grow something. Eventually, I think the, the financial side of things, I was pretty confident that what I was doing, I could grow and I did, you know, I started to, to work with other talent agencies and things like that and photography. For me, there's always been something about word of mouth. It's never been about marketing in some weird way. I think, uh, for me, the dudes that matter don't need to advertise basically, you know, that my peers and the people that I admired don't need to advertise who they are. They've become almost their name is bigger, you know, than almost their work. All their work is their name, you know, and, and they get paid accordingly for that.
You know, they're, they're wanted. And I think I was pretty conscious of that psychology of that. If you needed to, that if you, if your work didn't prove who you were, you shouldn't really be there in some ways, you know, you were cheap, I guess. So there was this sort of psychological aspect to the industry, which I think even still relevant today, but I think there's other other issues that.
I'm play now, but back then it was almost a reverse psychology that if you, if you're really, really good, you didn't have to bother about marketing. The work would just come, come to you and, uh, the marketing was the work being published. Yeah. So in the beginning, like, how did you begin to build relationships then? Because I think that's a, I mean, it sounds like you got handed that, you know, the headshot clients, you started to build a reputation through, uh, working with different models.
Building Good Relationships
We had, did all of this happen organically or how did you seek to start to build the good relationships? For me, it was, it was all very organic.
There wasn't a strategy or, or anything like that. I was still finding my way around the place. So, so I was just referencing how other photographers would have worked. I, unfortunately I've never assisted anybody. I sort of never had the opportunity to. Be behind or be mentored by somebody. I had to learn everything by instinct or by making mistakes.
I don't think there's enough value in mistake making basically. And then accepting that you've made mistakes. But yeah, for me, it was It was all very natural. I didn't, I didn't really know what I was doing and, and, you know, but I, I think I, what I did do is I harnessed the relationships that I was making and I befriended a lot of people who, you know, still my friends, believe it or not.
And, uh, it was all very natural. There was no. Yeah, conniving or anything like that. I, I, I felt very, I feel very personal about my work in some ways. And, and I think, uh, 1 of the benefits and 1 of the, the true great things about my job is that I tend to have really amazing relationships with the people.
That I work with work. So you, it's, I think it's just natural the way those things evolve. Like that I don't know how is, but you know, I'm not, I'm just not very good at Yeah. At some things with, with, well you clearly you got here so you clearly did something Right. You know, . Yeah. But I think, I think the whole developing relationships for your own benefit is just not something that I'm very good at.
I've, I've never been able to, to be that way. Yeah, it just happened organically. It sounds like you put your energy and creating the work and then the work slowly spoke for itself. Yeah. I also used to shoot a lot. I used to shoot a lot of personal work and collaborate with people as well. I would, I would, um, Ask people and drag them with me to do my little personal projects and things like that.
And, uh, the belief that we were going to do something amazing and things like that. It was, it was, uh, pretty amazing times actually for that stuff. You know, there was experimental, that whole desire to be. Published and to be, you know, I think important with your peers or accepted because I think back then, you know, it was about being accepted, you know, it was great to get published and all this stuff, but your peers needed to accept you as well, right?
It wasn't, uh, there was no social media. There was no thumbs up. There wasn't any of that stuff. You know, it was, it was really, if you're, if your peers, uh, 40 new work from speakers, they can't do it. For example. Or you're able to share experiences or, or things like that, that's where you really knew that you, you were part of the, the group. So you're suddenly talking to photographers that you had mine or people that, you know, or they, they talk to you because they relate to you as well, not just the other way around. So, yeah, it was great. Yeah, that's cool.
Getting Interested in Motion Works
And when did your work start to transition into motion stuff? Because if I go to your website and just prior to pressing record, we talked about you're a director, a photographer, and you're also a DOP who, you know, mainly shoots your own work.
How did that transition into motion? The motion side of things, I think, uh, I'll go back to the photography side because I always felt that my photography has, has had a little bit of narrative in the way that I like to shoot things. I've, was never really satisfied with just capturing the moment. I always felt, um, that I needed to evolve that. I was fascinated by, A lot of photography from photographers like Steven Mazel in with Italian Vogue and things like that, where his editorials were very cinematic and there are a few photographers, Nick Knight, there was a few photographers back back then who I felt were just doing incredible work. I always felt, uh, like it was important to, to tell stories.
So, I started to emulate that, basically. I started to emulate that style and started to create little stories or, or stories within photography. With the Creation of the Canon 5D Mark II. Yeah. One day I, I said, Oh, I'm going to give this a go. I turned the camera from photography to, to film and, um, made a couple of little videos with some model friends, but I didn't know how to edit.
I had to help get people to help me edit. But yeah, it was, Again, it was just when somewhere else suddenly the photography was alive, you know, and then I got asked to direct television commercials very, very early in the piece, probably within a year of me starting to shoot commercial advertising work, I was asked if I would like to direct a television commercial just because my work was start.
Already quite cinematic, but I actually said no, I actually turned the offer down to direct and to shoot. I said, I'm still learning my craft in photography. I don't want, I don't want to jump over to, to something. I have no idea. And this is before digital cameras as well. So. I would have been shooting in 16 mil or 35 mil film.
So it was very, you know, it was a compliment of course, but it was something that I wasn't interested at the time, this colleague of mine. This, uh, we're still very good friends. And many years later he asked me again and I said, yes. And then I shot my first television commercial for him. And it was a success that led to another one.
Then the voices started to happen around the place that I was doing this and doing that. And then it was a bit of a chain reaction. And, uh, eventually I got signed up by a production company, but yeah, again, it happened quite organically. It wasn't, uh, something that I planned. And so what year was that?
The 5D Mark II evolution happened. That would've been around, uh, probably nine. Uh, hang on, 2000, 2006, 2007 I'd say. Right. I bought the Mark Thief, uh, the five year mark. Uh, uh, mark two for as a backup to my hassle bla system. . So , right. And then just happened to have a recording feature on it, so, yeah, well I ended up, I was shooting hassle blade with, uh, digital backs and stuff like that, and which is a fabulous camera.
It still is. But you know, cameras break things, you don't want to be sort of stuck in a shoot. So I bought a 5D basically as my backup. If anything happened, I had a pretty decent little camera there that I could just snap out of it. But, but I ended up sort of using that camera a lot and eventually that's when the whole film things started with that as well.Interesting. Yeah. And then what did that, so it sounds like it naturally happened, but like, how do I say,
Insight Into Owning Gears
did you own a bunch of gear? Obviously the 5D had that feature in it, but like, did you just. Moving forward, did you invest in a bunch of gear or was it just like rent for production when the big production came to the job came about or how did that work?
I shot the, uh, the first TVC on the 5D, there was a lot of production happening on the 5D back then, you know, which is pretty crazy to think about that. This little camera was, was doing some crazy stuff. My first, this first job, I think all the money that I Made out of it, I put towards buying, uh, rigging equipment and I rigged it up, basically, I turned it into a cinema camera, basically.
I've always been someone who's invested themselves. I think it's the photographic side where you invest in the equipment based on what's going to be happening. All you anticipate is going to be happening. And I pretty much have a very similar philosophy to this day. If it is possible, you can still invest in things, you know, for what you're about to do in some ways.
I think I just need to be completely in tune with the equipment that I'm using. I think it's also because I've never had to, I've never assisted anyone. So I've had to learn basically by myself to. Use all the equipment my myself these days. I feel a bit more spoiled. I've got people around me everywhere when I'm doing stuff, you know, yeah, 100%. Yeah, I can relate to that. I feel like the tools we have in our hands. Um, we have to intuitively use them. And I had this one to this, like, funny cycle. I mean, coming back into trying to at least come back into photography. I started out in the Nikon world and learned. So the buttons are so intuitive on my fingers and then moving into video for the last eight years full time, you know, went from Sony FS7 to now owning a couple of red cameras and then everything went EF lenses.
So I thought, okay, I'll switch to, you know, Canon DSLR bought that. And then I just, I couldn't do it. I don't know why all the buttons are in the wrong place. You know, the viewfinder is too small. Like, I don't know, just the funny things that come about. Um, I can echo that the tool in your hand needs to feel very intuitive.
So now I've done the stupid thing. And after selling all the Nikon stuff, gone back and re bought the latest and greatest Z9. Uh, and then slowly dabbling back in with that now. So yeah, I can relate to that. Yeah, no, it tends to feel like a part of you, doesn't it? I, I even think with cinematography, it's like that as well.
It's a funny thing because I think we become something else when we put our eye to the viewfinder. Yeah, it's an unconscious feeling. I always found it hard to, to explain. I mean, I can see, I can create images and, and think about images before that, but when, when I When you put your eye to the viewfinder of any camera, it becomes, uh, something else.
It becomes two dimensional obviously, of course, but, but there's something there that happens within, within your, yourself that I think it's very difficult to explain to people who do not do it. Yeah, there's only been a handful of times where I've been on a shoot where you just get handed whatever camera there they want me to shoot on. And wow, it's always thrown me for a spin because it's like, at bare minimum, I've learned that I need to show up with my own monitor as a DP because then at least I can have my own like little things like how I like to see focus peaking and check my levels and all these sorts of things. But, uh, yeah, there's just been, I just can echo that knowing the tool that's in your hand and it becomes second nature is just.
Then there's no on the day, there's no blocks that are showing up. You're not just like in this beautiful moment where the light's hitting or whatever the thing is. And you're like, oh shoot, I need to fiddle around with the settings right now. It's like, no, that stuff's all worked out. You're showing up.
It's intuitive. It feels good. But I think that's different for everyone because every tool is so different. Everyone loves a different system. So I think figuring out what that is for you is important. I think also like And I don't know what you think of this, but I feel like once your camera is yours, you know, and it feels like a part of you, everything stops. And then you feel very free to explore what else you can do with it. One other aspect is that I've never, I've been very gear based in some ways. I've never felt I needed the latest and greatest of, of this. In fact, I, I've always struggled to, to let go of camera, camera gear, you know, my current camera, I spent two and a half years waiting before I purchased it because I felt like, um, I wasn't sure if that was going to be the right camera for me for the same reason.
You just said the buttons are in the wrong place, but you know, I love it now I've been using it for the last, uh, year and a bit. It's great. What camera is this? It's a Canon R3. Okay. I kept saying, when is the R1 coming out from Canon, you know, because, uh, you know, the Canon's has always been the one, the number one camera is always the main camera.
So, uh, what's since when the Canon's do threes, you know, I've never done a three. Is it the in between camera, the, the 1D Mark III or whatever it was, and now Mark IV, and then, uh, You know, when's the R1 coming out? But no, they did an R3. And I always felt, well, is that, is that an in between camera? I struggle to commit to, you know, and I kill my cameras.
I kill the shutters. They, they, they die, you know, they're just, they just die. So you're good at using cameras for what they're for. Well, sometimes I, I have to unfortunately upgrade for those things, but they don't change what you do. I've never made the focus. Of, uh, you know, the latest and greatest resolution or this and that to be the, the focus, uh, I've always been quite, you know, the camera is just a tool and, um, I feel like, um, we sometimes technology and, uh, you know, people got to sell cameras, companies got to sell their equipment, that's fine, but is it going to change what you do and that's the thing I remember many years ago, you know, this is back in the, when I was starting out and I just bought, um, Okay.
The 5D and I already had my Hasselblad and, and leaf digital back and I had the, the Hasselblad rep trying to sell me a Hasselblad digital back and he brought it over to my studio at the time and he showed me the digital back and the resolution on this little Screen on the back of the Hasselblad digital back was just shockingly bad and they wanted like, I don't know, 50, 000 for this digital back to, to attach it was made exactly to fit my camera, but I'm going like, this thing is rubbish.
Like, why would I buy this? Like my five D's got a better screen on it, right? And it's like a $4,000 camera. Why would I buy a $30,000? And I said to him, is it gonna change what I do? And I went, no, it's not gonna change what I do. . He never, he was never able to sell it to me, you know? So yeah, I still feel like I don't get too caught up in gear. Yeah. I think it was a good point you just made is like, is this going to change what I do? That's kind of like a good deciding factor in purchasing gear, at least versus shiny object syndrome. Look, I think, I think any equipment is going to empower you. I mean, that's just a given. The equipment needs to give you the power, the superpowers to, to express yourself and do what you do.
And if you can harness that equipment and, and then make it intuitive, then it can go to other places. You know? I'm currently using little Fuji cameras, uh, little X cameras, and they're wonderful. Took me a while to get around the menu system and, but you know, when I travel now, I travel with these little cameras and they're just so, so wicked, they're so lovely to shoot with, and.
It's exciting that these little cameras can do what they do. You know, it's, it's insane. Yeah. And from like a creative process perspective, I'd love to dive into that a little bit.
Dealing with Opportunities
So if someone was to like, send you an email and reach out to you about a campaign, like what are the steps you now go through creatively?
I still reference quite a lot of photography, actually, even for TV and stuff. I still Yeah, I still go back to a lot of photography. Uh, I think one of the, the great things about what I, or the way that I've sort of come up the industry is that I'm still aware of what happened many, many years ago.
Unfortunately, there's an era of, uh, photographer now that hasn't been exposed to What I would call mentors or masters or, you know, photographers that I think have shaped our industry and whether it's TV or whether it's a photographic campaign, I still sort of refer back to a lot of, um, I'll work, you know, and I dig it out.
I'm constantly hunting photography. I do it every day. I, every morning after When I start my day, I, I look for photography, I look for images, I, I, I hunt for images and I collect them. I've got thousands and thousands of images. Sometimes I've begun to categorize them a few years ago. So if I specifically needing something to refer back to, I can, I can go back to the menus and, and find stuff and, and I, I dig it out and start to create.
mood boards and, and things like that. I've also started doing that with, um, um, advertising as well with TVCs, television commercials as well. I collect, uh, those as well. Cause, uh, that's how I do it. Yeah. So when you sit down in the morning, what like, what websites are you going to? Where are you saving things?
Like what's that? What does that look like? I'm a big fan of Pinterest. I'm a big fan of tumblers as well. Blogs. There's just a few that I sort of follow and sometimes they update daily. Sometimes they don't. But yeah, I think I have this desire to be constantly inspired. I don't know what it is. I find it very difficult to disconnect that inspiration.
I, I think I, I always need that stimulation of, of seeing nice things or, or just challenging my, my ideas, uh, in some ways or, or making me fantasize what I want to be doing next. It's just something that happens daily for me. So I will just, I'll basically will collect images from, from blogs and things like that.
I'm still an avid book collector as well. I collect books, photographic books, which I, I think they're invaluable. They're, they're wonderful. There's something to be said about photographic books that I think, uh, Yeah, some, I've got books now, which, uh, I think are very, very valuable and I've got books that I don't own, which I wish I owned as well.
But yeah, like I think, I think it sort of comes in different levels, you know, but there's nothing better than sitting down with a book, opening a page, smelling the paper or the ink and, and going through that little journey of, you know, um, seeing what somebody else has done. I get really excited about that.
I love when I see photographers create a book. Makes me slightly jealous that I want to do mine. Yeah, I feel like it's a little bit of a lost art or experience. And, um, yeah, again, who knows where the next generation will go, but now we're just, you know, scroll with our thumbs on a phone versus sit down with a piece of paper and smell the ink and, and take a breath without, you know, You know, bright screens in our eyes, so I think that's something to reiterate is just the simplicity of enjoying photographs on paper is might become a lost experience, but I hope it doesn't.
I don't know about that. I think it's actually having a bit of, um, I think, um, there's so much noise out there. Yeah, I think, Marshall, I think there's so much noise out there right now. You know, it's hard to, I think for humanity to, to just. Keep up. I think, uh, the world's regressing in some ways. You know that, I mean, vinyl records are coming back, you know what I mean?
Like everybody, yeah, there's a, there's this whole aspect of, um, what was, what was then is now cool. And, uh, that people shoot film now that's cool because they're shooting film, you know, because they're. Yeah. Cause shooting film is cool, you know, not when I was shooting film, it was expensive. It was, it was an expense that I couldn't afford back then, you know, so, but now it's cool.
And then the camera that you used to shoot the film is cool too. So I don't know, there's, I think there's an element of, you know, Maybe it's not intentional, maybe it's happening superficially, but I do think there's an element where I don't know the human race can keep up with all the technology that we've got going at the moment and, and now with AI and other things that are happening as well.
I think it will be a natural progression where things might slowly slow down and, and I've seen it with my own children as well with my own kids, just the way they approach things. So, You know, it's, everything happens so quickly now and with the social media, it's a little bit distorted in some ways. I don't know if it's relevant as it used to be in some angles.
I think it's important still, but, but I don't know if it's as necessary as it used to be. And I feel that, that, uh, people are wanting something a bit more real, you know, now. There's a lot more books being created now that I've ever seen before ever. Yeah. And speaking of real, uh, I remember you mentioning on a group call or just on the other day that you are one of your personal projects was, was what you got, what got you one of the biggest campaigns.
I think you've, you said you've ever got, is that, is that true? Oh yes. So, um, yeah, I've just won a really lovely job, which I'll be shooting in the States. Unfortunately, I can't say what it is, but, but it is, it's probably the biggest thing I've ever done. Well, I'm going to do anyway. And, uh, but, but yeah, you know, like the industry is.
Again, quite, um, how would you say unpredictable, you know, we go from, from nothing to things like this. I had to resurrect, um, work that I'd done like 10 years ago. A lot of it was personal work or editorial work actually to show you that I could do the job. And so, which I had to reconnect with work that I haven't done in such a long time, I had to pull it out and lay it out into a document to then present to the advertising agency.
And it was wonderful reconnecting with that, seeing that work, you know, and yeah, and it's been approved. I've won the job. So it's amazing that, you know, back, you know, 10 years, uh, 11 years ago when I was doing this, that this would be still relevant. Yeah. That's amazing. And, and a lot of that was personal work.
It was me experimenting and, and, you know, trying to, if I was bored, I would do something, you know, it's like, if it, if the work wasn't satisfying me, then I would go and do stuff. So, and I have to say, I still, I still do that very much. I, I, I still, I do shoot quite a bit, you know, personally, but I like to, to dabble and experiment and I like to, to try things out and, and, uh, do stuff.
I think, uh, I don't know what it is, but I feel like I can't stop. I have to keep doing stuff. I mean, that's, I think that's what we all need. We have to have that itch or that, that we have to scratch otherwise, I think, um, and especially with personal work, I think that speaks volumes because a consistent theme I keep hearing across all these podcasts is, is
Creating Work for Yourself
ultimately the work we create for ourselves is the work we helps us get actual paid work. So is that kind of what you've experienced throughout your career? Always. I, I very early on, I used to, um, think how I could get clients and what I needed to shoot to get clients basically. But again, I left it to be quite natural. It wasn't forced. It was always, I think, about making sure that I could put the work in front of people to be able to justify, you know, and, and, and I think feel, feel empowered by the, by the work.
Enough to be, I say, I want to work with you. You know, I don't think those, those tactics have changed too much. I think it's become more complicated though. I think there's a lot more work to do these days, uh, which I think is this sort of the, the waters a little bit, or they say muddy the waters. It's not as easy as it used to be.
The systems are the same, but I just don't know whether it's as easy to get going. I think there's a lot more pressure and a lot more avenues now that you have to tap into to be able to. To be known even for up and comers now, I feel like they've got a lot of, you know, before you had a portfolio and your portfolio was a combination of personal work, maybe published work, you know, and you might be, you might do 50 shots for example.
And, and your book was very expensive because it was expensive to buy, but then also it was expensive to print. You know, so doing a portfolio was, was, was a big deal and expensive deal. Uh, now you have so many portfolios, it's, it's ridiculous to tap into so many different things. And then I think if, uh, in my world, then you also had the cinematography and direction side of things as well, which is, uh, uh, another story again.
Yeah. And if you were to look at, you know, I think a big piece of this is like, where does the money come from? I'm curious because I mean, there's photography, there's directing, there's DOP ing, there's, I think a lot of the audience is also curious, like, cool, I want to make a living with a camera, but where's the money?
Because I think maybe a better question is what in your experience separates like, like a 2, 000 photographer from a 200, 000 photographer? That's a really good question. I think the intuition to the confidence, you know, I think, uh, in my experience, and I've had this my whole career, I've been surrounded by photographers, you know, photography can be very superficial.
It's a fantasy for a lot of people, especially in the advertising or fashion industry. It's something that everybody fantasizes about doing. But when the money side of things come, and the pressure, Of delivery and expectations, the bigger the client, the bigger expectations, the more money, the bigger their expectation.
2,000 vs 200,000 Photographer
A lot of people could not handle that pressure, you know, and you might be very good, but then when you get to a certain place, You sometimes can collapse very quickly because you just don't, yeah, you don't know how to, uh, deliver amongst the pressure, you know, your instincts or your flow just doesn't allow you to, to go to the next step. And I've been, I've seen people do that my whole career, you know, basically you get to a certain point and then basically. You peek and then they dive down, you know, because it's, it's just not, they were probably not meant to be doing it. I don't know if that categorizing a 2, 000 photographer with a more expensive one is because I know a lot of photographers who are amazing, who, who are still up and coming and are going to be huge and things like that.
I'm so supportive of people who can do that, but, but, uh, unfortunately it is a business and. Business tends to sort out the Instagrammers and the social media, you know, influencers and all that very quickly the minute it becomes real, you know, and you're dealing with a really big budget, not, you know, not just your budget, but the client's budget that they're investing in, and they don't have expectations that you're going to promote them on Instagram, they just want to do a bloody good job, you know, so I think that tends to naturally sort out people, I think, um, very quickly.
Then what is it that what skills then lie in that process that that photographers need to develop was that just like getting good at bidding jobs having being able to deal with big rooms of people and lead? Yeah, what is it in there?
Skills Needed by Photographers
For me, personally, it's about being myself. I mean, I've always What you see is what you get. I don't, I'm very good at not being me, number one. So I always say to, if you get me, you get all of me basically, cause I don't know how to do it any other way, how other people do it. Cause I can only do it for myself, but I, I've always found a really lovely. Personal connection with people that you got to create a belief, I think, with your clients that you're going to be able to do something for them.
That inspires them. I've also had this ability to be able to inspire people with what I, with what I do or what I say. Christina actually said something to me, uh, many weeks back, maybe late last year when we were talking about, you know, when I joined the program, um, And she said, your, your work is like going on a journey, Israel. That's what she said to me. And I said, you, you know, you're absolutely right. It is, you know, even getting to the jobs is like a journey for me. You know, it's a very personal journey. So my process in dealing with my clients is always a very personal one. I give myself to them, basically, and they trust, you know, they entrust me with what I'm going to do with them.
And, and I think they also want to see what I'm going to do that they don't want anything else. Yeah. I feel very fortunate that I get to do what I do because my clients want me to give them what I do, uh, which is a incredible compliment. They're not looking for that person did that. Can you do that?
They're looking for what I'm going to do. You know, I think that's a really important thing as well. But I have a very good working relationship with all my clients. But that must have come from a lot of pushback or no's because I mean, ultimately people are going to continue to ask you, Hey, can you make this for me in this way?
How did you deal with that? You know, as it comes up, is that just saying like, Hey, that's not what I do. Or Hey, this is my process. This is what it's going to look like. Like, how did you shape to get to that place? Because I think that's a dream place for a lot of people. I think I, you know, it sort of goes back to that, um, intuitives.
And the confidence, I think, to be able to say, how about we do it this way? Because, you know, like, uh, look, there's nothing better than, than getting a brief and creating a brief with someone. Think, uh, that it, to me, there's, there's in any craft, uh, you know, it doesn't get any better, you know, really got, uh, you got to learn that slowly with time, you know, for anybody up and coming, it's, it's about trying to, to build that confidence.
Not only yourself, but also in your clients to be able to get to that place. Someone said to me many, many years ago, which I've never forgotten, we are all replaceable. You know, there's always someone behind you to, to do that. I've never, I've never really forgotten that, you know, and it's so true, you know, there's, there's always someone there who could.
Dealing with Pushbacks
Do the next job, you know, and that's fine. That's great. But, but I think you've got to have this self belief, self belief, uh, Marshall in, in what you do. And if that self belief then becomes, uh, uh, something that you can pass on to your clients, then they give that back to you as well. And I think that's what I was saying before, like a lot of photographers, I can do this, I can do that.
I can do, you know, uh, but then when it comes to the, to the, you know, if something's not working out. You know, it always happens and something's not working out. It's those are the moments that when you really need to shine, you know, those are the moments when you, you need to be able to go, all right, well, how do we fix this? How do I show my, my knowledge? How do I show confidence? It might not be your, it might not be your situation, but it'd be something that the client might throw at last minute. You know, it might be something that happens with an onset that the client says, Oh, you know, it changes their mind. And it wasn't what you.
we're gonna do, but something you're faced with doing it. Those are the moments I think that, that, uh, which, you know, nobody really talks about, but that's when it really, really matters. And, um, I don't know if I've got a process. I think, uh, uh, uh, things have always happened very naturally like that way.
And I, and I think that also happens with my work, you know, I, like, you know, you go from feast to famine basically. And then you start to question all those things. So it's, uh, It's a weird, weird dynamic. Yeah. I mean, that that's a perfectly good question though, too, is like, how do you deal with that feast or famine?
Because ultimately, I think in this creative industry, I don't even understand it. Sometimes I'm like, how has it been crickets for months? And then I get three emails in a day. Like, I don't understand why. So how have you dealt with like the rollercoaster Of that mentally, you know, you've been doing this for 25 years and I'm sure there's been some definitely quiet months or maybe a year.
Feast-or-Famine Periods in the Industry
How have you mentally got through that? I have a very patient wife. She's wonderful. She's, uh, look, I, I think, uh, one thing to, to emphasize with, with, um, people who do what, what I do, what we do is that it's a lifestyle. It is totally consuming. There is very little rest mentally, um, basically. And yeah, it's, it's a cycle.
It's, it's a very unpredictable industry and it's, it's. Yeah, I've, I've got months without work, um, many, many times for many, many years and it's stressful. It's, um, it affects everything. It affects your moods. It affects your bank account, of course, but it also affects, uh, you know, how you feel and, and you question, you know, what I've got to do next and what I'm not doing right.
What's wrong with me? All those things. All the self doubt stuff shows to show up. Yeah, totally. And, you know, we're all people, but, and the irony to it is that when you're really busy, you go, Oh, next time I slow down, I'm going to do this. You know, and there's a huge amount of irony because when you slow down a week, two weeks later after you've slowed down, you're going like, God, what am I doing wrong?
You know, I was going to do that, but I now, I now got to do this because I'm not getting any work. I better get out and start calling people and emailing people and doing this and doing that. And how's my website look? Is it really bad? I need to go and do this and do that. And, but look, all I can say, it is a lifestyle.
It is something, it is part of the. part of the gig. It is something that, that I think, uh, can also sort people out as well. It's part of that, what I was saying before that you've got, you've got to be able to cut it and, and live it. It's part of the life and, uh, take the highs when they're there and accept the lows and grow from that.
Unfortunately, I think the industry since COVID has become more unpredictable in some ways. Which is, uh, sad. I, I actually feel, and I've spoken to somebody recently about this, that I, I feel the, the industry is realigning itself at the moment where we've gone from, you know, crazy social media nuts to posting, posting, posting, doing this, doing that.
And to slowly the, the people that really matter now going back to, no, I want to see a decent portfolio or no, I want to see amazing film work. Do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like, uh, yeah. The superficialness of social media is while still necessary and important, I don't know if that's important.
It's just, uh, I think for example, Instagram, I will use Instagram. It's just a quick, I'll see what he does, you know, you quick jump in there. But then when you get to the crust of it, you go into conversations and you want to see decent work. Do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like, and I, in a way, I think.
There's been a few more fluctuations in time with that work of late over the last three years. But I do feel I'm getting a sense at the moment that maybe the industry might be reshaping itself and shaking a few old feathers, if that's how you want to put it. And that's a good thing. I think, uh, I think that the important thing is to, to stay there and write it out.
Yeah. That makes sense. And I think, I don't know, I don't know where we're going, but, um, I agree that we kind of had a little phase there where I don't know how long we can understand it or stay on this, like level of. Dopamine high going at a million miles an hour. I think ultimately we will want to sniff, uh, ink on a piece of paper again and go back to listening to vinyl.
Advice to Younger Self
So, uh, we'll see where it goes. If you were to, like, think back 20 years ago and you were, starting out or rather you saw yourself standing there. Is there anything you would tell yourself that you've learned now that you say, Hey, look, Israel, this is something I want you to know. Yeah, I probably, I probably would have said to myself, uh, even be more confident than you were.
I mean, I, I feel like I've done everything upside down. I was in my mid thirties. Sorry, my, my, my late twenties into my thirties when I started my career in a way. And, you know, uh, there's always that element that I say to myself, oh, what would've been if I would've started much earlier? You know, I, you know, I would've traveled, I would've done this.
I done that a bit earlier and done. You know, but, but yeah, I, there's a part of me that, that I think that the reason that I'm doing what I'm doing is because the way that it's happened as well, I dunno. If I need to sort of go there, either it's, it's a, it's a bit of a funny one 'cause it, it's, you know, I was always surrounded by young people, uh, younger people than I was, you know, coming up in the industry.
And they were brilliant. They were so good. But, you know, I was sort of one of the oldies, , I guess I'm, I am one of the oldies now in my industry up here, you know? But yeah, I don't know. I don't dunno if I, I, I think the, the, the whole ride's been so enjoyable in some ways. I think, uh, it's sort of great to also let it be what it is. And I also tend to look forward quite a bit as well. I've sort of go, all right, what's next? You know, to me, that is the part that excites me the most in some ways. It's like, well, What is next? You know, I get more excited about that than if I had to do it again. You know, how would I have done it differently?
I probably, uh, I don't know, moved overseas earlier or something like that. You know, I probably would have gone overseas. That's probably one of the few things that I would have loved to go back to Europe done, but that's about it. Really. There's not really a lot of things that would change. Yeah. And I mean, speaking about looking forward as we begin to wrap things up, you know, what, what is firing you up right now that you're looking forward to? Well, momentum, it creates momentum, doesn't it? That's sort of, uh, I'm excited. I'm excited about, you know, as I said before, you know, I think COVID sort of had a few sort of things to shake up and I'm excited. I feel like, uh, now I'm trying to reinvigorate my photography. I'm thinking more about photography.
Not just cinematography and direction. I think the simplicity of the format is something that excites me. It excites me. I did a little shoot last week. I hadn't done one of these personal little test shoots for a long time, you know, under Christina's instructions, get out there and shoot. And I did. And I, I, I was buzzing after the shoot, you know, it was so lovely.
It was such an amazing experience just to, to get out there and do stuff, you know, and Take one camera, one lens. I actually shot, uh, uh, just a model test. I actually had a model actually contact me on Instagram. She knows me from another model friend of mine. And she said, can I, she asked me if I would photograph and I said, sure, why not? Let's do it. So we just, we just went out for lunch and got, I've never met her before. We had lunch and then we just went out and shot. I bought some wardrobe and I styled it and uh, we had a blast. It was so much fun. I shot right into twilight and used the most beautiful light to create beautiful, really moody images.
And she looked divine and, and she was on a high, I was on a high and the, the photographs are just that, they're just images. They're nothing, they're not meant for anything. They're just meant to power the moment and power the, the situation and hopefully inspire other people. But there was something really liberating and lovely about doing that because I think it's also important to create separation between, uh, the structural element of work and also the fact that we are very fortunate to do what we get to do.
To do it personally and to even give back with that personally is really important as well. But he was so, so awesome. Marshall was so great. Yeah, just having that consistent, well, how do I say, showing up for yourself, remembering to have fun with creativity, finding spontaneity in, you know, that random Ask on Instagram, creating that piece of work that who knows, because you just told me 10 years ago, you did that.
And now it's getting you the biggest campaign you've ever shot. So I think that is just an important piece of the puzzle as we go along on our way. That's right. And I think that translates to your clients as well. So when your clients see that, the joy that you can, you can bring to, to what they're doing, because then they believe that you believe in them.
That also translates to that as well. I think it's very important. That also comes across because belief is everything really. Yeah. Thank you for that. And, um, yeah, Israel, if people want to go to find you, where can they find your work? Well, they can find me on my website on Israel Rivera. com or yeah, hit me up on Instagram on just Israel Rivera.
It's there. So I don't post very often. I probably should be a little bit more diligent with that, but it's, there's nice work in there for you. Yeah. Yeah. If you want to see what I do, it's all there. Cool. Yeah, I definitely recommend, uh, if you do look him up on his website, I think your latest video you put together, I thought it was pretty cool. You did some sort of like a photo collage with mixing with mixing the medium with motion and sound design. And, uh, I just had a watch of that right before we jumped on the interview here. And it's like a super cool mixed medium piece. So highly recommend people checking that out. Yeah. Check it out. It's great.
Thank you. Well, thanks so much for coming on the show today. I appreciate it. Marshall. It's been a joy. Thank you. Yeah. What a treat. Thank you so much. Okay. That was Israel Rivera. Israel has such a great energy and optimism behind him, and it became clear throughout our conversation that his calling is truly to be a successful creative, whether that be a director, photographer, or DOP, I encourage you to check out some of his work at Israel Rivera dot com or on Instagram.
Israel Rivera. In an effort to continually grow this podcast and help you make a living doing what you love, I have a request. I want you to DM me on Instagram, at Marshall Chupa, and let me know, what is the one thing you are struggling with most, and why is it so painful? Learning what my audience is challenged with will help me dig deeper in future episodes with guests that I bring on, and ultimately help us all grow as a community.
In future episodes, I will be speaking with photographers, cinematographers, directors, producers, reps, and anyone. Who has decided to take this ambitious leap of faith at making a life and living behind the lens. Stay tuned and subscribe to the channel on your favorite podcast app. And if you have 30 seconds, please leave me a star rating or review.
If you hear something of value, I encourage you to share this episode with a friend and until next time, we'll catch you next time on shot list.
