34. Cinematography: Balancing Art, Ego, and Emotional Intelligence
In this episode of the Shotlist Podcast, Marshal sits down with world class cinematographer Anka Malatynska, whose journey behind the lens has spanned over 20 years. From her scrappy beginnings shooting whatever she could get her hands on, to working on acclaimed shows like Monsterland, NCIS, and Rescue: Hi-Surf, Anka shares how perseverance, emotional intelligence, and inner work have shaped her career.
They explore the challenges of navigating set politics, how to stay grounded in the chaos of production, and the power of letting go of ego. Anka also opens up about balancing her creative career with motherhood and how prioritizing mental health has been a game-changer in her life.
This episode is packed with insights for anyone in the film industry—or any creative field—looking to grow both professionally and personally.
Episode Highlights
(01:45) The Journey of Becoming a Cinematographer
(14:08) Balancing Inner Work and Professional Growth
(23:30) Adapting to Set Politics and Creative Challenges
(38:48) Financial and Career Advice for Filmmakers
(59:49) Final Thoughts and Mentorship
📖 Check out Anka’s Visual Accelerator Course: visualaccelerator.co/podcast
🔗 CONNECT WITH Anka Malatynska
📸 Instagram | @ankavision 💻 Website | www.ankavision.com
🔗 CONNECT WITH MARSHAL
📸 Instagram | www.instagram.com/marshalchupa 💻 Website | www.marshalchupa.com 👥 Linkedin | www.linkedin.com/in/marshal-chupa-99a7921a8
📄 SHOW NOTES & TRANSCRIPT
Visit the website for the transcript and highlights from the conversation - www.shotlistpodcast.com
🎙 ABOUT THE PODCAST
This podcast is all about helping emerging cinematographers, photographers, and directors navigate the challenges of making a life and a living behind the lens. From workflow to personal growth, creative vision to marketing, finances to production—every episode is packed with a wide range of topics to support visual storytellers in their pursuit of building a business and growing a career they are proud of.
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📱 GET IN TOUCH
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Transcript
Introduction and Welcome
Sometimes, you won’t get a response. Sometimes, you won’t get an answer. But that doesn’t mean you stop. You keep going. You keep advocating for yourself. One of the best pieces of advice I received when starting out was to shoot everything—anything you can get your hands on. Don’t get stuck in a single track or become dependent on one rigid pathway to success.
Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Shotlist Podcast, where we talk about building a life and a career behind the lens. I’m cinematographer Marshall Chupa, and today, I’m joined by the incredible Anka Malatynska.
In this episode, Anka and I discuss what it’s like to work on major productions and navigate the politics of being a cinematographer. We’ll also explore why emotional intelligence is vital for building and maintaining relationships on set, how letting go of ego and the need for validation can elevate your craft, and how the challenges we face as creatives often become the greatest catalysts for our growth.
Anka has more than earned her stripes in the industry, putting in her 10,000 hours behind the camera. Along the way, she’s done the inner work to take her career to levels many of us aspire to reach.
I’m thrilled to share this inspiring conversation with you. Let’s dive in.
Anka, thanks so much for coming on the show today. I really appreciate you having her.
It's great to be here. Thank you so much.
So I just found your work only a few weeks ago, but as I dug around and got to know things a little bit, it seems like you've been in the game for a long time.
The Journey of Becoming a Cinematographer
How long have you been playing with cameras?
Oh, a really long time. I mean, the long of it is like I'm like, I gotta remember how old I am. Probably over 30 years, but that's counting me sneaking into my mom's lab at the University of Arizona to develop my own photos when I was 13, and that was my first foray into camera work, into cinematography.
I really saw the camera as a vehicle to see the world.
And then when I got into filmmaking, it became more than just seeing the world. It kind of, I feel like through narrative cinematography, it became a way of exploring people's inner landscapes and almost like this idea that comes with acting, that you get to live many lives when you tell stories and make movies and engage in creating the human story.
Yeah. And so for those who don't know you, what is your DP and, like, what's been, like, your work and like what you've dove into.
So I am a cinematographer based in, I'm based out of Los Angeles. I really, you know, as a professional, I grew up in Los Angeles. I was mentored by Laszlo Kovacs and Vilma Sigmund by way of James Chrysanthes, who was also one of their mentees and my direct mentor.
So I kind of came up through these two generations of really seminal cinematographers. And for years, I mean, I was shooting everything that I could get my hands on. You know, I was shooting commercials, low budget commercials, reality TV.
I spent years on RuPaul's Drag Race. I did the thing that so many of us who are working on becoming cinematographers or directors, I basically did every single job I can get my hands on.
And then in 2019, I actually, prior to 2019, I started teaching at universities and I kind of had this moment where I was like, if all I end up doing is a bunch of indies and then I teach on the side, I'm just really going to focus on, on being happy internally in my life, in myself, with the things that I'm doing.
I was a young mom, meaning my kid was young. I don't know if I was that young, you know. So I had this moment where I was like, you know, I'm just going to release all the expectation.
And it was right at that moment that I assigned with one of my first like really serious agents. And what I mean by that, prior to that I had had agents that like, they're there when I bring a job and they'll happily negotiate and take their 10, but nobody was opening doors for me.
And then I signed with an agency that really started to open doors for me. Simultaneously, I was invited by the Qatar Foundation, Northwestern University, to teach in Qatar for two years.
So I had this moment where like that teaching job, you know, kind of made me feel like I had a, I had a carte blanche to say no to the projects that really didn't align with my mission.
So like while like, you know, like, I think I was up for LA's finest as the second DP and I was like, no, I'm not going to quit Qatar for that.
And then the jobs kept just getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And then finally Monsterland came around and Monsterland was my like big break show. It's not a super well known show, but in like the horror genre and people who are connoisseurs of filmmaking, it was an anthology series that invited some pretty incredible directors to basically kind of direct one off Episodes about monsters.
It's based on North American lake Monsters, which is an incredible book of short stories. And in Monsterland, the monsters really kind of serve as an allegory. I had a chance to work with Baba Kanvari, Desiree Akavani and Logan Tibbins on that show.
Baba Ganvari is an incredible, incredible Iranian filmmaker who did this film called Under the Shadow. That's a really great study for how to make a groundbreaking indie. It's a horror movie that's set in one house in the Iranian revolution in the 1970s.
And it's, it's, it's an incredible film. So Monsterland was like my foray into television. I feel like by the time I got to Monsterland, I had really done my 10,000 hours as a cinematographer.
I knew what I was doing and I also, I feel like I had the emotional maturity to handle the politics really well. And Monster Land kind of became this project that kept on giving.
From Monster Land, I went on to do an Oprah, a show for the Oprah channel with one of our producers. And then I went on to I Know What You Did Last Summer for Sony, Amazon.
And I did that with Craig McNeil who was also a director that I worked with on Monsterland. And that was my first show in Hawaii. That was my first post pandemic show.
And basically Since Monsterland, since 2019, I've been big part, if not the lead DP. I've been, I've shot many episodes or partial, you know, Basically I've done seven shows since 19.
Back to back to back to back to back. I started in horror and I was doing a lot of horror I really like. At one point I remember I didn't land a job because they were like, oh, you know, it's a more high key TV show.
We want to know that you can make a high key TV show. And I was like, you know, I really like. And at that point I was like, you know, I really just want to change up the genre so that people can't say I only shoot dark things.
And that's when I went to NCIS. NCIS was a really fun show to work on. I feel like it was, was such a great learning experience in like that high octane action, you know, multi cameras, lots of explosions, car chases, you know, things that I hadn't done before on a television show level.
And then from NCIS I actually got poached by the producers of Rescue High Surf who I had actually been trying to like get into the John Walls camp for several Years and Hi-Surf Rescue was my last TV show and that was nine months of big surf on the North Shore of Hawaii.
And no one can say that I can't shoot a bright high key show anymore or a dark horror show.
Yeah, that's awesome. It's quite a track record. You've been on quite the journey, it sounds like. But I'm curious to wind it back right to the beginning because I think a lot of people.
It sounds amazing to have worked on all these big shows and this big track record, but I think a lot of people listening are like, how the hell do I even begin that process?
You know? So I'm curious to dive into, like the very beginnings of that. Like, what was the. Cause you said you're scrappy in the beginning, shooting commercials and just kind of like whatever was kind of coming your way.
What was it like back then?
I got to say that interestingly enough back then, it's similar to what it is right now.
Okay.
And what I'll say in terms of that is, you know, over the last two years, we've experienced the strike. I was very lucky to come out of the strike with a job, you know, and I know that Rescue High Surf, I was one of like, you know, the whole nine months we were working.
We knew we were some of the few people out there working and coming out of Hi-Surf. I actually had switched agents about a year and a half before that.
I ended up going to a really big agency. And the really big agency, kind of in the downturn of work was actually like, as I was emerging from Rescue: Hi-Surf, they felt like they were completely lost in how to find work in this market.
And I had been used to, you know, by the time I'm wrapping a job, I'm interviewing for multiple jobs. That's what the five years kind of felt like since pre pandemic.
So, you know, I ended up leaving Hi-Surf Rescue and now we've been in the slowdown again.
So what is it that I'm doing to get work, you know, and for me it is. It's like you pound the pavement, you make a list of people. You call all of those people.
You are your best advocate. One of the lessons that I really learned this year from a good camera operator friend of mine who actually reached out to me over a year and a half ago, and I didn't know him at the time, and he reached out to me, he knew that I was working on the show and he was looking for work in Hawaii and he reached out to Me pretty aggressively, like, you know, calling me several times around Thanksgiving, and I was like, whoa, this is how the bros do it, huh?
A little much for me. And then I didn't meet him till about a year later, and then he kept checking in with me every three months. And then finally when we met in person, it turned out that he was a wonderful person.
And he told me how it was actually through his therapist that he acquired these tools of perseverance in the midst of hardship and not taking it personally when people don't return phone calls or don't return text messages.
And over the past several months, I was able to take that lesson and apply it to the things that I was chasing. In one example, I think this is all useful stuff, whether you're starting out or whether you're accepting, experiencing this kind of work.
Slow down.
Just keep reaching out and being your own best advocate. So, like, I took what he taught me, and I actually had a college friend who's been pretty successful. They have several shows that they show run, but we lost touch 20 years ago, you know, and so I was like, how do I reintroduce myself to my old college friends as a cinematographer?
And, you know, when I was powwowing with some of our mutual friends, and they were like, well, you know, they're pretty sh. Shy about, like, kicking it down the line to people that they know, but why don't you text him?
Why don't you call him? Why don't you? And I actually went through three months of texting and writing emails, like, once every three weeks, and it finally generated an answer, and it opened a door.
And it wasn't that I was annoying or, like, you know, finally the reception was really warm, and now they know that I'm on the map, and they know that I'm doing great work.
And my new agents were able to speak with their people. But it was such a lesson in, like, hey, just because you don't get a response, just because you don't get an answer, it actually.
It's meaningless. You keep going, and you keep being your own best advocate. You know, so how it is, starting out, starting out. It was also the advice that I got was, shoot everything, everything that you can get your hands on.
Don't get stuck in a union position where you're working your way up, where you become dependent on the money. And while I think in some ways that worked for me, I mean, some things worked for me in other ways.
You know, I also watched a lot of my AC friends buy homes and get Ahead financially in ways that for many years I wasn't able to. But how do we start out?
How do we get there? I was just speaking to a director friend of mine about this and it is. It's like our entire career is an act of magic. And the magic, it's creating that external magic, which is the work, the really good work, the getting your 10,000 hours, the shooting everything, you know, having a buttoned up reel and a resume and an agent.
Balancing Inner Work and Professional Growth
But the internal work. What is the internal work? You know, for a long time, the internal work for me is I have sat. I think I also sat close to 10,000 hours in silent meditation over like a decade and a half.
I do therapy, I do really deep self work because I do think that a lot of people who kind of search for success in the film industry, we do so because of our unconscious wounds.
You know, in general, the chasing of success in the world. It's both survival and unconscious wounds, but survival itself is an unconscious wound. right. So to me, it's always been really, really important to do the inner work and to also do the outer work.
That one doesn't really move without the other.
Yeah, that's really cool to hear that. I think something I've noticed for sure is a big neglect in mental health and that inner journey, especially in the film space. And so it's something I actually really want to start to bring in with this podcast and with the Shotlist community and just kind of really speak to and build that into our lives.
Because I think, I mean, maybe we could just speak to the lifestyle that exists as a cinematographer. Because I think especially when you're signing onto a big show like you are, you're doing crazy amounts of hours, you're.
There's a lot of stress, you're managing crew and teams. Like, I mean, I'm personally curious, like, how are you staying grounded and centered and through when things are on? Because it's nice when, like, okay, you don't have a show and you're sitting at home and you can have your nice morning routine and all that kind of stuff.
But, like, how are you staying grounded amongst the chaos, let's say,.
Well, you know, now it's almost like, because I did seven shows over five years, it's like, I almost feel more comfortable on set than I feel like, you know, it's been a little bit like, I haven't worked since August.
I'm like, oh my God, what do I do with myself? I mean, not quite. I know what to do with myself. I have so many like side projects and passions.
But you know, I think it's interesting about working on set because there's a momentum in the collaboration between people. There's an energy that like, if you're not stuck up your own ass too much, you can let the collaboration, the energy and the momentum really carry you.
I think, you know, one of the interesting things about the creative process is that the creative process, as much as we plan it's also a process of discovery. It's being okay with the unknown.
And that's kind of the toughest part of going to set. Like, oh my God, we have this big night exterior and I hope the riggers like got the lights done.
And I'm going to be there an hour early and I'm going to double check everything and I hope that everything works out like that. That stress is there. And I guess through that practice of seven years, show after show, 12, 14 hours a day, that if you do the work again, this is like outer work and inner work.
If you do the work to prep and then you trust the creative process. And part of trusting the creative process is trusting that through that 12 hour day, you and your collaborators, you're going to find the solutions to whatever problems arise.
I mean, I think I was a lot more monster land. I was like shaking in my boots because I had to leave the teaching job in Qatar to take monster land.
And I had like moved my family to Qatar and then four months later I was moving them to New York. You know, when we know how precarious the film business is, I was like, yeah, I better not fuck up and lose this job because if I lose this job, my family like, like we're going to be destitute.
And it's funny because I actually stepping from smaller projects to a bigger project, there's definitely a learning curve. And I think the learning curve is really kind of in the politics and in the positions of all of the people who are part of the team.
Like, I had no idea who the post production supervisor was when I got on my first big show. And I didn't understand that as a dp, the post production supervisor, like they're like my right hand person.
Like if I have a good relationship with that post production supervisor or the post producer, then we can dial in the pipeline of the dailies which are so important because that's what the network looks at, that's what the directors are editing with.
And as much as you may know as a dp, oh, those dailies went through a one light and they're not all perfect, but, you know, in final color, it's going to look good.
The producers may not know that, and they'll be like, what's wrong with the DP5?
Right?
There's a lot of things on my first show like that that I was like. It was almost like, okay, I am going to listen as much as possible, and I'm only going to speak if I really, really need to say something.
Like, I'm going to be like, water. And it's funny because I remember one of my good friends who I made on the show said to me, he was like, you know, what's incredible about you is that you know how to listen to people and you really let others speak, and then, you know, you really weigh your words.
And I was like, wow, that's an interesting note. But I really, like, that kind of came out of fear, but I took that note and I've run with that note, you know, And I've continued to kind of like, I do.
I feel like in big filmmaking, collaboration on TV shows, sometimes there's collaborators who just like to talk, to hear themselves talk, to sound like the smartest person in the room.
The result of really weighing your words, you know, for me was that, you know, I remember close to the end of Monsterland, we were having some issues with the location, and they were gonna, like, take all of our time away.
Suddenly, where we were gonna be for. We were going to be there for five hours. We could only be there for five hours. They were going to stop our filming at a certain hour.
And I was like, I'm going to have an anxiety attack.
I was like, this is where I call the showrunner, which, like, I never called the showrunner with problems. So I called the showrunner, who was also a really wonderful person, and I said, I'm going to be honest.
I try to solve every problem that's thrown at me and try to pivot, but I don't fucking know how we're going to accomplish this. And then they ended up pushing back on the time, and it was.
She was like, okay, if Anka's calling me, then, like, I know it's really serious. Because Anka doesn't call me to tell me that it's impossible. I think what's really important as a DP coming up is don't ever naysay your director's ideas.
There is no such thing as impossible.
There is another creative solution to the problem, you know? So again, we're kind of getting into, like, how do I get the job? How Do I keep the job? It's really the work on the inside and on the outside.
And the work on the inside is to know and to trust the creative process and to know that there is always a workaround. We're not doing surgery, we're not saving somebody's life.
Although on High Surf Rescue we did save a couple of lives, which was, that's where like reality.
But I do, I think the inner work is as equally important as the outer work. And now, you know, as I, like, I've had this run of seven shows, but I'm still not Roger Deakins.
Like, I'm still like, it's like you can accomplish so much and then still be like, but I'm still nobody.
I still like. You know, a little while ago the agency that I left, they were like, we could put you up for second DP and we hope a guy doesn't get your get the job instead.
And I was like, wait, where are we? Is this 2011 again? What's happening? Didn't I just shoot 19 episodes of a John Wells TV show? And now we're like hoping a guy doesn't get the job.
Like, are we still having this conversation in 2024? So the road is long and then I feel like the road actually gets longer and in some ways harder.
Yeah, it's a never ending problem solving game. And the inner work is always involved. Doesn't matter what level you're at.
Yeah, the higher the level, the more the inner work is necessary. It's like the higher the level of the work, the more nuanced the communication between people.
Adapting to Set Politics and Creative Challenges
Well, I'm curious. Why don't we delve into like, what are the politics you have to deal with as a DP at that level or what are the things that you're. I mean, I heard a few things, right?
Like, you know, don't ever tell the director it's impossible. Come up with creative solutions, like having things like, okay, knowing who your, like you said, your post pro supervisor, how they can help you and make sure you're looking good so you're staying on the job.
Like, are there any other political things that you find that come up that are good to know holistically?
Leave a sea of friends and fans. Really just try to be kind and humble as much as possible, but yet don't let people step on you. I don't know, it's kind of, it's really, it's a really wild, wild game.
But my biggest piece of advice is really to be like water, you know, water is a powerful force.
It can be a destructive force. It can be a healing force. It can fill in between all the rocks, you know, and what I mean by being like water is I like, you know, I suss out my directors really quickly.
Are they an actor's director? Are they going to want to control the camera? Are they? And I really. I try to be a service to the hierarchy of the picture.
And whenever I've made political blunders, it's always been ego. It's always like, you know, the ego trying to assert itself in one way or another. And sometimes it needs to.
You know, not every problem, not every collaboration can or should be perfect. We also can't necessarily get along with everyone. But I think, you know, the biggest thing is. Yeah, to be like water.
If there's a director who, like, needs me to conceptualize most of their shots, it's part of my job as a dp. If there's a director who knows, Anka, I just need this wide shot here, and I want it to go from here to here.
And that's all I want, you know? Yes. With directors like that, like, I recently on High Surf Rescue, I worked with Lauren Iaconelli, who is brilliant. She's an ASC cinematographer.
She's a produce. She's a director. She's been directing for the past six years. She was our producing director, and she was directing, I think, four or five episodes of the season, you know, and Lauren's like a machine.
Lauren knows, like, it's like working with a commercial director on a TV show. She knows where her cut's going to be. She's rethought everything, you know, and with a director like that, I'll still throw out suggestions to Lauren.
Lauren, are you sure you don't want a, like, alternative closeup? Are you sure you don't want me to bring in B camera over here? And with Lauren, 90% of the time, it's, no, I don't need that, Anka, but thank you.
And then I'll tell her. I'll be like, I hope, you know, I'm going to keep suggesting. You can tell me to stop, but I'm going to keep throwing out these suggestions and just know that I never take it personally when there's a no, you know, and with her, like, I trust her as a leader, I trust her as a director, you know, And I was really happy when.
When I did throw out suggestions and she was like, you know, actually, let's do this. I'm just like, oh, yay, got one.
So that's the advice. Be kind, be courteous, be of service, don't take it personally when they don't take your ideas. Like, you're just like the whole taking it personally is self sabotage.
And I just, through the podcast, I want to say this, that goes for camera operators as well, you know, and I think from having been a camera operators, you know, I think oftentimes camera operators are like, oh, you know, I guess like if it's like, hey, can you change your headroom a little bit?
Compress your headroom or make your headroom wider? Can you put them on the left side of frame? Let me see that frame this way. And you know, unless experienced camera operators will be like, oh, they didn't like my frame.
They don't like my. It's about me. It's about me, what I'm doing. It's not about them and what they're doing. You know, oftentime it's about, oh, I really like the A camera shot.
And I want to match the headroom on the B camera shot to the A camera shot so it creates a clean cut.
So, yeah, the political advice is really don't take anything personally if somebody doesn't like your creative idea. Like, your job is to be a creator full of creative ideas. They cost nothing, these creative ideas, except for your ego.
Yeah, well, that's what I was going to say. It's hard to cost a lot if we take it personally when they're not used. But it's not actually personal most of the time.
It's not personal to our person, to our personality, to our value as a creator. It's just, you know, when you step into bigger shows, above every boss, there is a sea of bosses.
And you know, and even with the showrunner on set, you know, everybody on set thinks that the buck stops with the showrunner, but really that showrunner is reporting to like 12 network executives who are so divorced from the set and they all want to have an opinion on the cut.
So like, that's why we shoot all the extra footage.
Also in television, you're telling these hour long stories in seven to 10 days and it's not a lot of time. You know, on Pretty Little Ayers Original Sin, the process of that team was that we left probably 25, 30% of the material on the editing room floor.
We had hour and a half long first cuts of episodes that were supposed to be an hour long. It's almost like I see that overshoot and the more material, it's really for all the people above the Showrunner to.
Be able to, right, to have an opinion. And.
Yeah, so I love this. Melissa Leo said this to me on a set, that television is like threading the needle at a thousand miles per hour. And that's really kind of.
Yeah, it's like threading the needle at a thousand miles an hour.
Yeah, that makes sense.
And I think a piece that I'd love to know a bit more about is the relationship side. I know you kind of spoke to that in the beginning. And I think a lot of people are curious, like, how do you begin to build relationships and who do you build them with?
I know, obviously, and there's many people, obviously, you can build relationships with directors or producers or, you know, and that's what the agent is helpful for. But when you kind of were in that stage of like, okay, I've started to build a career and things are kicking off, like, I love your relentless tip of just like, don't take it personally.
Keep messaging, keep messaging. But who are you messaging and what are you saying?
Like, for instance, right now I am.
Gosh, it's like, you know, kind of making a list of all of the people you've ever worked with. So this is actually direct advice from that camera operator. Like, he.
He told me that, you know, and this is like incredible Steadicam operator who has some really big credits and now. And he's from LA and in the work. Slow down in LA, you know, his work has really suffered.
So from 30 years of working, he told me he has a list of like a thousand people that he just kind of checks in with, you know, like on a rolling tab every couple of months.
What do I do? I, like, I read the trades, I check social media, who's working on what, you know, I'm trying to like, kind of connect the dots of like, oh, you know, this friend from AFI just posted that they're going to have a show that will hopefully get greenlit at Amazon.
So then I did this this morning. I emailed my agent, I said so. And so who I went to AFI with has a show in the works. It's not greenlit yet, but they're feeling really hopeful.
It's going to be at Amazon. Let's track that show. And if you don't have an agent, you can kind of track that yourself.
But I'm not a huge. Like, I feel like there's people who take the networking and then they feel like they really have to make best friends with everybody on set rather than focusing on their work.
Recently, a little while ago, I worked with a camera operator like this. He was like, busier than ever. Trying to make friends with everybody on the cast, with everybody kind of as a form of job security.
But within that, he was neglecting his actual job on set and he wasn't, you know, so I'm not a big partier. I'm not a big drinker. Like, I'm not the bro who's going to get hired because I'm one of the bros when we can go play beer pong at the end of our shoot day.
And that's why you're hiring me. I really, you know, I feel like I gain my connections and my respect through the work that I deliver and the way I show up and I work on set, which is through kindness and clarity and having a clear plan and being really of service to the process.
Yeah. Have you found that challenging? Just, like, I don't know, obviously there's like a clickiness or a bro to the film industry. And just like, it is about, like, yeah, are you going to grab beers with this person or that kind of relationship?
Have you found that challenging to.
I don't know. At least I'm speaking to myself sometimes. I find, like, I'm not always the most extroverted person. So that whole, like, social dynamic that's included into it, it's always been a personal challenge for me to be like, okay, I need to stretch, to need to connect, need to network, all these sorts of things.
But I'm also not the beer pong gro.
Well, you know, I also think that right now, kind of like the age of the beer pong bro is to some extent being weeded out just because there's such a work shortage that unless you're showing up with like a clear level of seriousness, you know, it's going to get around.
It's just there's too many people waiting for a job.
I mean, you know, that's again, where, like, our careers are an act of magic and you really have to follow your heart and you have to follow what's right for you.
You know what stopped me a lot of the time I'm from, like, from going out with everybody, it's that I'm a mom, you know, and I've had this like five years of rapid fire shooting in the time that my son was going from 5 to 10.
So, no, my priority on the weekend is to be present for my child because that's really important too. And then you kind of, you know, you trust God or the universe that it's it's going, it's going to work out the way it's supposed to.
You keep putting one foot in front of the other. You know, another metaphor. It's like the highway in the middle of the night. You know, like you're only like a dark highway in the middle of the night.
You only see like, I don't know.
20Ft in front of your head or whatever.
But like, you're not going to stop the car and be like, I can't go anywhere, right? Just keep going.
You know, another thing that I love, and this I got from yoga, from a yoga teacher, that whenever you have somebody who really, you're like, oh man, that person's doing all the cool stuff.
Like, why am I not doing the cool stuff? I know all like, look at each other on Instagram and we're like, because I saw your Instagram. I'm like, he's doing all the cool stuff.
Why am I not doing all the cool stuff? Whenever you have like career jealousy or envy of somebody. So in yogic terms, they're your expander. They're actually just somebody who's showing you what it's possible for you to grow into and to again, like honor that with kindness and, you know, and be like, okay, if they made it there, that means that I can make it there.
Not that, oh, I'm small or I'm like, again, it kind of goes back to the self talk to the inner work, because it's through the inner work that we create the magic.
Yeah, I like that. I think that's so easy, especially in the social media game, to get caught up in the, you know, this person's posting that thing and holy crap, that's beautiful.
And man, I haven't worked in a while and Jesus, should I just give up right now or, you know, this is like the self talk loop that goes on and yeah, so it's nice to hear that and speak to that.
It's just, it's about reframing. How do we reframe that same situation and turn that into a positive? Like, I love that. Just like how that is a beautiful example of where I'm going.
Thank you.
Yes, exactly. You know, like, it's fun to get on a roll and, and like, it looks like, oh, you know, Anka has no problems anymore because she's shooting all of these TV shows.
But really the anxiety follows us internally and it's an inside job to heal it. The self doubt, it doesn't go away because you get a big job, you know, maybe like for that moment it goes away.
But you know, I think one of my also like big lessons was when I worked with Steve Buscemi on his film the Listener. And then we actually had a chance to get together when he was in Hawaii working on Wedding Crashers.
We like did a final scene of the color correction on our film, you know, and I remember we were having a conversation and in that conversation I realized, oh, even Steve Buscemi is, I think we were having a conversation about AI and the future and that like, oh, even somebody like Steve Buscemi gets anxiety over future work and how is all going to work out that it actually doesn't.
You know, I do also feel like the bigger your career gets in film, you kind of come into funny money and then you expand your financial footprint and then the lack of that job means so much more.
So my greatest advice to up and coming filmmakers, to people who are just starting out, and if you're just starting out, would be one to not expect your job and career to provide financial security.
And that doesn't mean that it won't provide money.
Financial and Career Advice for Filmmakers
That actually means that if I could go back and change anything, I would have educated myself about finance and investments and putting money away for the future. Twenty years ago that like simultaneously while in film school I would be looking at how to, you know, start to build a sustainable investment fund.
Because that anxiety over money, I think in the film industry, until you have an investment portfolio, until you have a side gig that generates money, you know, you're still in a feast and famine relationship with your work.
You know, when it's there, you're so over gorged that like you can't even function on the weekends. And when it's not there it's like, can somebody give me a camera?
Totally.
Yeah. I can't relate more than to that for sure. And I, and I think that's the, the funny part about this trajectory and I mean I love that you spoke to it right away, but yeah, it's doesn't matter how far you go down the ladder.
It sounds like you can, that it's always going to be like that. So yeah, I think setting yourself up financially, it's something I've been really working on myself lately. Like what are those consistent residual income pieces that could exist outside of this career so that when crickets happen and it will, what are the things that make me feel secure enough to still say no to?
Maybe the small little things and then put all my energy into those bigger buckets that are really calling you forward and so, you know, I don't know. Do you have any advice around?
I don't know, looking back, like the buckets you would have looked at or learned about or just kind of more just like a reflection now looking back.
Well, you know, I think. I don't know if this directly answers your question, but I do. I feel like I've mentored people and I've coached people. And the one thing that like, in hindsight I realized that there are moments of opportunity in our careers.
And what I mean by that is like when you go to AFI and you make your thesis film, that's a possible portal opening to a much bigger thing. Like it can actually be like a, you know, a funnel into a much bigger career right away where.
And it's when we don't know that, that we don't know how to take advantage of that, that actually, you know, like, so what I would have done differently, I think my AFI thesis film screened at the Cannes Shorts Corner.
If I could do it all over again, I would go to Cannes. I would find a way to go to can during that Shorts Corner. I didn't have the money, I didn't have the time.
I was working on something, you know, it's, it's things like that. It's also things like, I don't regret this per se, but this kind of led to kind of a breakdown in communication with a wonderful agent that I had.
You know, I did Monsterland and I didn't realize at the time that a lot of people really considered Monsterland and the people like that it was a really high level show in that, like indie, you know, who's who in the directing world who's making groundbreaking work.
I mean, it was a co production with Annapurna.
Maybe if I was in a different place, it would have behooved me to wait for another very high caliber show rather than going on to do Delilah, you know, and kind of essentially becoming a working cinematographer over the past five years.
But it's also hard to say because, you know, as a woman I also felt like, well, I don't just wanna be pigeonholed into like, oh, she only does the indie arty things and she can't do a bigger budget thing, you know.
And now I've like done the bigger budget things and now it's like, but can she do the indie arty thing?
It's like we can only do what we last did. That's what actually whatever you last did, that's what you're known for. But no, I Think the main bucket is just becoming educating yourself financially.
And with that, setting up your own retirement account, setting up your own 401k as a freelancer, you know, setting up kind of these things that I didn't start doing until the last last three years.
And that like, you know, the idea that like, oh, I'm not making enough and I can't put away, it's really like that's, that's also not true because you know, you can just create a habit of even like rather than that cup of coffee, $3 into an investment account in order to build yourself financially.
And I guess what I'm saying is like the financial piece of this career is only solved when you become financially educated.
Yeah, I think it's easy to think like, oh, I need all the. Well, what I just heard is that even like the $3 coffee idea, like obviously you're not going to build a massive portfolio on $3.
But I think it's the discipline of doing that is what you're speaking to. Because ultimately it's like the financial discipline to have set up the systems and processes that whether that's like an auto transfer from your account monthly into the thing that's going to then or taking like for me it's like take a percentage of the way I've gotten around.
This is because our income is so inconsistent. It's just like, well, or rather inconsistently even, or don't have a 9 to 5. This is what you're making each week. But it's just like take a percentage and put it into different buckets.
So okay, 15% then goes into the investing bucket of that paycheck. So whether you made five grand or 50 grand, it's still like a 15% cut. That's how I've been able to start to allocate and like separate.
So that's been helpful for me.
Yeah.
You know, and then the other thing is it's again, it's like that thing that I said, the anxiety doesn't go away. You know, the only way that the anxiety goes away is through inner self work.
And it's actually, and it's interesting, you know, so I am in between jobs. Like I try to be in therapy during a job. I don't have time for therapy. But that was actually something that I spoke to my therapist about the other week.
I was like, you know, I like got to this place where like, yes, I'm able to like bring in big jobs and hold down big jobs. But like there's still that like feeling of Imposter syndrome and feeling of like, oh my God, is the bottom gonna fall out?
And like, where is that really coming from? That like, you know, it's. And I think I, I like heard this about some actor years ago that they had made it to a certain point and they realized that they still, they had all this stuff, but they weren't happy.
They weren't, you know, they were still full of anxiety. And that goes back to the inner work. The anxiety comes from our early childhood trauma, ancestral trauma, you know. And this is why I also like, I say that like the calling to be an artist is really like yourself, soul calling you for a really, really deep healing so that you step into your full power and your full potential and you are the energy maker.
No matter what the energetics are around you, you are the energy maker, you know, which then goes back to the, what advice that I could give to anybody coming up as a cinematographer, you're leading that, that set.
You are the energy maker, you are the aloha or you are the fuck you. You know, the way you show up, the way you show up internally and externally really does matter.
Yeah, that's a beautiful piece of advice. And I think it's so easy to, at least in my own personal journey, just like as I've learned to through whatever that is meditation, like breath work, you know, different morning practices, like, you know, journaling.
Yeah. What, all the things, it's just, just observing the energy in which I'm showing up to in the world. And I think, yeah, like you just spoke to on set, it's, it's everything, right?
It's like how you, how you're being perceived but then also how that affects all the layers around you. So it's really cool how you're speaking to that piece and maybe so for someone who's never even dove into any of that, like, like Anka, like inner work, what the heck?
Like I'm a, I'm an artist. Like I'm just trying to play with cameras for a living. Like where do I, what are you talking about? How do I, how do I begin that journey?
What would you say to that?
I would say, wow, it really depends who it is. You know, go take a yoga class, go take a breath meditation, like some sort of breath work class. Connect to your inner self.
You know, if you're full of anxiety and unhappiness, which can be a powerful driver for creativity, but if you're full of anxiety and, or depression and, or self defeating things, look for a therapist, you know, look for an ally who can help you identify these belief systems that are keeping you stuck in a certain energetic, you know, And I think these days everybody knows a little bit about self work.
You know, like the world is going through an awakening. Like therapy isn't a bad word anymore. And you know, and even Einstein said it, every. Everything is energy. What is the energy that you're bringing?
How conscious are you of the energy that you're bringing? I think another piece that like weirdly helped me ground myself in a bigger career is being a mom.
Because by being a mom, I am able to serve a bigger vision. You know, that bigger vision is like, it's natural, it's biological. Now there's. It's more than just me and my ego wanting to get an Oscar.
You know, I'm engaged in pushing another human being out into the world and I need to get them into a school and I need to like. So there's a little bit of like to step out of your ego.
What is the bigger vision? And then, you know, there was something about dealing with a baby and then a toddler that made me look at everybody that I wore work with like they are my child.
And when they are upset or stressed or you know, that there is some intrinsic need that's not being met. And just by being able to observe, I'm able not to react.
It's like as soon as we bring in our own, like, that fucking producer, like, isn't getting me the fucking shit that I need for this fucking job. And fuck you and fuck this.
You know, I've been there too. You know, when I've been there recently and I have to check myself, I have to be like, okay, hold on.
Very small world. And like, I don't want to like emit negative energy towards people all the time.
You know, step those conversations, take what you need from people, take what you can get. You know, the other thing that as far as leadership, these are all things that I learned in inner work and yoga.
If you are conscious enough as a leader, you will understand how to change your form of communication to get what you need from the audience that you have.
And this is like I was working with a camera operator a while ago who just. It's like I really triggered any kind of mommy issues and I couldn't. And I had to like, give four compliments before I gave the note for the adjustment that I need in order for the relationship to work.
And it was exhausting. But the alternative is that there's a complete breakdown in communication and we develop A completely acrimonious relationship, and then we both lose. So if I am awake and aware enough, what is a way for me to communicate with this person in order to get what it is that we need creatively in the moment?
And the answer is not a blanket answer. It's different with every person. It's also like. It goes back to kind of like what my mentors used to always tell me, is that a cinematographer is 30% cinematographer, 70% psychology.
You know, so if you're a cinematographer, if you're a director and you're not doing inner work, then I'm sorry, but what the fuck are you doing?
You know, you're creating enemies and you're stepping on people's toes. And, you know, and I did that. I did that at the beginning. Like, look at me, I'm the big dp.
I want to decide, you know.
Yeah, I can. I can resonate and hear a lot of similarities. Like, what you're speaking to is like, emotional intelligence, essentially.
It takes incredible emotional intelligence. It's so fascinating about filmmaking because it is the right brain and the left brain working together all the time.
Especially, I think, in North America, where, you know, in North America, everything we do has to have a financial upside.
Yeah, right.
As a DP or a cinematographer, like, how. Actually, Can I ask you that question? This is a question that I always laugh at. It's like, what's the difference between a DP and a cinematographer?
I feel like no one can ever answer that fricking question. I'm curious how you respond to that.
Well, I was fortunate enough to have Bill Dill as one of my teachers at afi, and he would always say, there's one director on the set. You are the cinematographer.
And I think, you know, that's really the difference to be careful of, especially as a director of photography. Like, I mean, I hear stories about DPs who tell directors, I'm not going to do your shot.
Oh, you know, we're going five minutes over because of your idea. And I'm like, jeez, Jesus Christ, I can't believe these people are out there working. But I think that's really.
Is the same job. Just to be clear, the cinematographer and the director of photography are just two names for the same position.
But what is the difference? You know, the differences in the framing of the hierarchy of the set and how it runs. And if you're calling yourself a director of photography, to just be mindful and to remember that there's one director on.
That set, I like that answer. I'VE got a few answers before, so I like yours. When it comes to systems and processes as a cinematographer, what kind of things do you have?
Like, bag of tricks, like, when it comes to, I don't know, prepping a show, like, anything from, like, staying on point when it comes to being on set to, like, making sure it all gets wrapped up in a bow.
Like, what are some of the things that really keep you dialed?
Well, you know, one of my systems for, like, like setting the look of a show and like, making sure that we're replicating the look of the show is like, you know, is building, you know, these files of visual references that then I will, like, if I have an office, I will then put up pictures all over my office of what we want the show to look like.
I'll put them up in my office, at home, in my room, anywhere where I can like, actively, like. And I will actually go through the process of not just putting it digitally on my computer, but printing it out and putting it somewhere where I'm forced to unconsciously keep referencing it and looking at it.
And I kind of make myself dream the show that way. Like, it really works. And then it's so awesome to like, then be like, oh, we really did make it look like what we said.
We made it look like it's. Again, it's not like. Then I, like, analyze the lighting that they did in that shot and I use all that. No, I don't use all that.
It's a very, like, subconscious process.
I listen. That's a really big part of my process. It goes back to what I was saying earlier, and I feel like I listen at very deep levels. I listen to my collaborators body language, you know, again, going back to emotional intelligence.
I listen to, like, if I'm working on a feature with a director, what kind of music do they like? Like, what is their internal aesthetic? What are their hopes and dreams?
What are like, you know, and it's all of those intangible and conscious things that kind of help us arrive at a really quick shorthand. It's like it's listening to not just the words, but all of the spaces in between.
I also do believe I have this belief around creative projects that they have a life of their own, that they tell us what they need. That, like, beyond, like on a TV show, beyond the director, the pilot director, the showrunners, the, like, there's also like the actual physical rolling out of the show will like, oh, we lost that location, you know, and like.
And it's this idea that the limitation is the gift can really help us all around, you know, in our career and on set. And when the producers tell you, no, you can't have rigors, you know.
And I will say that High Surf Rescue was this experience that after like six shows, I felt like I could get any equipment that I wanted. Coming from an indie background, like man two fly swatters and like all the 18Ks I want, like, I don't know, like, I don't know what else I would want to kind of having this experience that I can ask for whatever gear I need with within limits, you know, like most shows will have a mandate.
You have one crane day, you go in there and you're like, I need the crane seven days a week. Week. You might not be making a lot of friends and people might be like, have they ever done this before?
So I'm asking with. In the confines of what I had and on Rescue High Surf, you know, John wanted to work in a very, very nimble way. We made a TV show the way I've made indie films before.
I didn't have a dit. I had a tiny village. Like, you know, part of me is like, I'm embarrassed to put post pictures from set because our monitors are so small, you know.
Oh no, my ego, My ego wanted a bigger monitor.
Yeah. But my eyes could still use the smaller monitors. So the show worked out okay.
You know. And I remember we like milk this conversation about the dit several times and I love telling the story about Lauren that like after several pitches to John and Lauren about why I would need a dit, I like brought up the conversation again with Lauren and Lauren goes, Anka, I think you just got to decide whether you want to support me and John in making the show that way.
We want to make this show. I was like, okay, copy that. You know, that's a really like, also like as far as like how to say things in a nice way that are very like, you got to decide whether you want to support me in the way I want to make this show.
Because if you don't and you need your dit and you need your special crew and you need your special equipment, then maybe this collaboration isn't in a lot alignment, you know.
So I did like so on High Surf Rescue, you know, like we had no rigors, we had no fly swatters. You know, a lot of it was dictated by where we were shooting.
It's a very small geographical space. It's connected by one two lane road that's always full of traffic. And then As I worked in John's style, I discovered, yeah, there's a method to this madness.
And it's like. And the method is that there's a whole lot of freedom on set when you're not overwhelmed by gear. You know, John also has this thing of, like, no chairs on set.
Like, he just hates people sitting around. And, you know, you start to. You have a big company, everybody's sitting down now. Like, you really, like, there's no way you're going to turn around to pick up that shot in a time that you're missing, you know?
And so much of this past show was that, like, me and the directors would discuss the scene when we got to set, and we would talk about what's the best way to block the scene, and then we would do it, and then we would find the shots and shoot it.
I was shooting all 19 episodes, so I wasn't shot listing or prepping or, you know, I could only suggest to the directors from set, hey, look for the backlight.
That will help us. Don't stage your scene at sunrise. And front light. We'll have with camera shadows.
Yeah, it just sounds like. I mean, anything's possible at the end of the day. But it's cool to hear how, like, yeah, working with different directors and being forced into different boxes also, it's a creative job.
We then become more creative with how we achieve those goals. So it's like, you know. But it also sounds like it's really fun to have all the toys and tools at your disposal and just be like, well, let's light the sucker up.
Yes, let's blow it up and put some cameras on it.
Yeah, well, it's been. Yeah, I love. I love, love listening to this journey of yours. And it's. It's so cool to dive into things.
Final Thoughts and Mentorship
But as we begin to wrap things up, is there anything that's, like, really firing you up right now?
Yes.
I put together an amazing online class about visual language. I actually put it together because I found when I was shooting television with a lot of directors, that there are so many people who didn't go to film school who come from different walks of life, who come from acting, who come from producing, who don't know visual language, you know, and in that, I've taught this class several times in small groups.
And then I wanted to find a way to be able to share it with people all the time, whenever people need it. And I've also had camera operators who are like, I was an English major.
I learned the job on the job. And now I, like, want a little bit more language. And that's what I teach. Kind of the really like core fundamentals of visual language that really start to.
It's like the insider knowledge we got at AFI, but also tested against my 20 years of working and what I actually use and what I'm able to explain in a very, very, very clear, accessible language.
It's like I'm the. I'm the demystifier of the technical terms that keep people boggled and scared of the camera. Because I think for a lot of people, camera intimidation is real.
So that's it. Check out my class on my Instagram. That's my one piece of advice here and on there. I also, I do run in person groups on that class where if you are looking for mentorship, I address a lot of these kind of mindset things.
And we have. When I'm working, it's really monthly conversations. Right now, we're having bi weekly conversations when I'm not working.
Cool. Yeah. It's really awesome that you're putting some together for the community. And I agree that Mike, I mean, film school forgot how to teach us a lot of the major things like how to make a life and a living.
Hence this podcast and why I'm so passionate about bringing this stuff to life. So, yeah, I amend you and thank you so much for also just contributing to the next generation of us all trying to do what we love for a living.
Well, thank you so much. Your work looks really beautiful and I'm also really inspired by your podcast.
Thanks, Anca. Well, thanks for coming on the show today and yeah, I really appreciate you.
I appreciate you.
Okay, that was Anka Malatynska. Anka has built such an impressive career, all the while being a model mom and prioritizing mental health, which in my eyes is pretty freaking incredible.
I encourage you to check out some of her work@ankavision.com or on Instagram Anka A N K a vision as well as jump into the link in her bio and check out her online masterclass called Visual Accelerator.
In efforts to continually grow this podcast and help you make a life doing what you love. I have a request DM me on Instagram arshalchupa and let me know what is the one thing you're struggling with most and how can I help?
Learning what my audience is struggling with most can help me dig deeper in future episodes with guests I'm bringing on and ultimately help us all grow together. In future episodes, I'll speak with photographers, cinematographers, directors, producers, reps and anyone who has decided to take this ambitious leap of faith and making a life and a living behind the lens, stay tuned and subscribe to the channel on your favorite podcast app.
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Please share with a friend.
Thanks for listening and we'll catch you next time on Shotlist.
