22. TAYLOR REID | Director Duo

In this episode, Marshal speaks with director duo Paul Reid and Nick Taylor, owners of Taylor Reid Creative. This dynamic pair boasts an impressive portfolio, having collaborated with renowned brands such as Ford, Subaru, and Air Canada, among others.

This conversation caters to individuals aspiring to enter the film industry and those considering a collaborative business partner. Then Paul and Nick provided invaluable insights into their journey, detailing their initial steps, collaborative strategies, and effective networking approaches. Moreover, they shed light on challenges filmmakers face, such as uncertain income streams, and offer advice on balancing passion projects while handling a production company.

Don't miss out on this fun and fruitful conversation with Paul and Nick!

Episode Highlights

1:47 Meet Paul and Nick

14:13 Advice on How to Start your Career in Film

18:54 Dealing with Having No Guaranteed Income

22:01 Working on Passion Projects

27:58 What Makes this DUO Different from the Rest?

31:00 How to Build a Solid Crew of Team Members

37:31 Art vs. Business

41:44 How to Build and Maintain Relationships in the Industry

47:56 Purchasing vs. Renting from a Business Perspective

53:51 Systems, Software, and Workflows

🔗 CONNECT WITH TAYLOR REID CREATIVE - DIRECTOR DUO

📸Instagram | www.instagram.com/taylorreidcreative 💻Website | www.taylorreid.ca

🔗 CONNECT WITH PAUL REID

📸Instagram | www.instagram.com/paulreidd

🔗 CONNECT WITH NICK TAYLOR

📸Instagram | www.instagram.com/nicholasjtaylor_

🔗 CONNECT WITH MARSHAL

📸Instagram | www.instagram.com/marshalchupa 💻Website | www.marshalchupa.com 👥 Linkedin | www.linkedin.com/in/marshal-chupa-99a7921a8

📄 SHOW NOTES & TRANSCRIPT

Visit the website for the transcript and highlights from the conversation - www.shotlistpodcast.com

🎙 ABOUT THE PODCAST

This podcast is all about helping emerging cinematographers, photographers, and directors navigate the challenges of making a life and a living behind the lens. From workflow to personal growth, creative vision to marketing, finances to production—every episode is packed with a wide range of topics to support visual storytellers in their pursuit of building a business and growing a career they are proud of.

🎧 LISTEN FOR FREE

Apple Podcasts | https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/shotlist/id1645435800

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📱 GET IN TOUCH

You can also drop me a DM instagram @marshalchupa or email marshal@marshalchupa.com

TRANSCRIPT

Introduction and Welcome

You can have the highest and best mentor in the world, but like if you aren't proving yourself that you can do this or that or elevate your work or do the bigger thing. Then no one can help you, right? So I think it's like a bit of both. Like you have to be just charging and developing stuff and doing new work and pushing yourself. But then also have the people around who can see that and help you and push you to go further. Hello and welcome to another episode of shot list where we talk about how to make a life and a living behind the lens. I'm cinematographer Marshall Chupa. And today I'm speaking with Paul Reid and Nick Taylor, co owners and directors at Taylor Reid Creative.

In this episode, Paul and Nick dive into what it's like to build a production company and a good working partnership as a director duo, how they built relationships organically that led to a thriving career path, finding the art of the business and why having both is so important for success. And when and why you might want to buy your first big fancy red camera.

This is the first time I've ever spoke with Paul and Nick, and I can tell right away why they have been successful with their careers. They both bring a lighthearted and fun energy to the art and the business, while having created a great partnership that allows for growth and good times. This was a fun and fruitful conversation.

And I'm excited to bring it to you. Let's dive in. Paul and Nick, thanks so much for coming on the shotless podcast. Excited to have you here. Yeah, thanks for having us, Marshall. You guys are the first duo on the podcast. So congratulations. I'll probably send you a plaque in the mail or something. Wow. It's an honor.

Meet Paul and Nick

And I'm curious, maybe we'll kick things off. I want to know about your, how did you meet? What is your romantic Tinder story? How did it all kind of started? Um, Paul and I had similar mentors. I just moved to Toronto right after finishing university and was working on a documentary with this amazing, uh, doc director named Michael Del Monte. Like I was working with a director producer and Paul was working with a DP. So we met on a few shoots, kind of. Had known each other a bit and then we were on a shoot in Cornwall, Ontario, and uh, we're in this like basement bar and just kind of like talking about what we wanted to do with our careers and stuff and both kind of at a similar point and just want to try and start something.

So kind of shook hands in a bar in Cornwall and uh, the rest is history. And um, Usually in the nature of our business, partnering can be an interesting endeavor. I mean, what was the idea behind coming together versus usually it's, you know, it's a competitive industry. What was the benefit of, of coming together from the beginning?

What did strengths and weaknesses that you guys see? Yeah, I think Nick and I both kind of had similar intentions within the industry, like a lot. A lot of people we worked with and what we had been doing in the past was just like, you know, getting on like hired as a, as a contractor for a day or multiple days at a time.

And we both kind of enjoyed like the thought of growing a bigger business to us. I think that's like Most of the fun is like growing the business, building these relationships with our clients that we can get into. But I think we both knew that we had complimentary talents that, you know, we both kind of work together really well.

And I think it was like, we met in a perfect way where we were kind of friends and our mentors were, were friends and such great people that, you know, worked us hard, but we had such a good time. And we, you know, meeting in a way where it's like, primarily work, but also friendship, I think is, is super important.

Cause yeah, like you do hear tons of stories of friends starting a business and it not working out, people have different intentions and stuff, but yeah, it's been, uh, it's been amazing. It's been super fun. What were some of the, I guess, strengths you would say you have and Nick has, um, I guess maybe do they juxtapose each other or compliment each other?

What are those specific things that come to mind? Yeah, well, off the top, like the, the job we got sent on when we were working together, like, you know, we'd worked together a handful of times and then, and then there was one job in particular, as Nick mentioned, that we were both kind of put on and Nick was directing and I was DPing it. But we were both kind of like working on the creative together. Our mentors kind of passed the job along to us. And it was obviously a great opportunity for us to work on it. So yeah, right off the top, it was like Nick directing me, DP, but that's kind of like doing it all together. Like Nick picks up a camera here and there and also help direct here and there, and we work on the creative together, so it's, it's a pretty good team.

And we started kind of like, you know, we always say we did like backdoor deals and stuff. Like we didn't really start in the formal. advertising world. Like it was kind of us doing stuff, maybe a crew of like two or three people. So I was trying to direct more, Paul was trying to DP more. And then we kind of got to a crossroads where it's like, you know, should we get wrapped and start doing these things separately?

But we loved working together. So we're like, you know what, let's just get, feel ourselves as a director duo. Cause you know, from the start of a job, we kind of developed the creative all together. We do everything together. And I think it's definitely, we're very lucky that like, We didn't know each other super well and the relationship developed very naturally.

And we love working together. But to me, it's like so much more fun to have someone to do it with. And like you're in the trenches together. It makes it kind of less stressful and more enjoyable. Yeah. Interesting. So you do pitch as a director duo. So when you come to like an agency or whomever, you're kind of saying like, we're collaborative directors on this.

Is that how that works? Yeah, exactly. Then like on set, I'll direct and Paul DP, because, you know, so he can focus on that, but we kind of do everything together. And yeah, we kind of, we bid the whole process together, pitch together and do all that stuff. So yeah, that's, it works really well and makes it a lot more fun.

Very cool. And so Paul, uh, I guess Nicholas Taylor creative, or what do you call it specifically, sir? Yeah. So our name's Taylor Reid, which is like, so it kind of goes back to when we started. Cause we didn't really know how like production companies worked and rep directors and agencies and all that stuff.

So we started calling ourselves like Taylor Reid creative agency. Cause we were doing a lot of like direct to brand stuff. And we were, I don't know, I think like 24, 25 at the time, it's kind of funny now, but we wanted a company that sounded like a law firm or like kind of official because we were going in and meeting these like CEOs and stuff.

And we were just little kids or, you know, relatively young. So we're like, okay, we want a company that sounds like established, like an institution. And then as we kind of developed and saw how things actually worked, we did a bunch of jobs ourselves and then started working more with agencies. So. We kind of shifted, just took out like the creative agency and focus more on being a production company.

Right. And is that where you are now? Are you still playing both roles or are you going to just see what lands on the table or are you specifically a production company? Yeah. Just a production company. Well, and we, we also work in like so many different scales of production. Like sometimes it's just Nick and I running out and like.

You know, sometimes in the back country shooting action sport, and then sometimes we're on set with 100 people there. So we do work in a bunch of different kind of ways, but we found just Taylor Reid worked well. And it does cause some confusion though. It's like both our last names, but could also be people's first name.

So people are always, uh. Mixing it up. Yeah, I'm not gonna lie. When I jumped and did a bit of research yesterday, I was, it took me, it was like an aha moment. I was like, Oh my God, it's just their last name. So I was like, that's, uh, that's so obvious once you, once you realize it. But so if we strip it back to the early days for someone who's just thinking about, I don't know, starting a production company or partnering with someone, like where did it all begin for you?

And what kind of maybe advice would you have around joining together or not? I guess, was that, was that a good move? Was that something you recommend for others? Yeah, I think it was definitely an amazing move if you have the right partner you want to go in on something with but I think as mentioned like the complimentary skill set and then also Nick and I were kind of both in the industry but doing our own thing before that.

So I came from The action sports industry, similar to a bunch of the other guests you've had on here. And it came from the documentary world. So as mentioned, we kind of had like some work being in the action sports industry. I had relationships with like a lot of brands and stuff like that. I kind of knew I always wanted to take it to the next level and not just be like a contractor, but start a production company.

So after Nick and I met, we like. Dedicated a few days and just kind of like got the name logo website, like pretty basic stuff to, to get a business off the ground. And then it was interesting cause we started the business, but we kept working separately on what we were doing already on our own. And then this job came on, we got asked to bid on a job.

It was actually the longest snowmobile race in the world in Labrador called Kane's Quest. And I had shot it before for another kind of snowmobile specific production company, but they didn't want to do the production of it anymore. So You know, our name got thrown in the hat and this was like, right when we started.

So it was, it was really good timing, but we bid it on that and ended up getting it. And, you know, at the time we thought we, we hit the jackpot. We're like, no way, this is crazy. Like huge budget and we're like going to Labrador to essentially like live there for a month to shoot this race and, you know, shooting from helicopters and everything. So I'd say like that job was. It worked out really well that that job just kind of like landed on our lap, like right as we started the business and it just solidified like, okay, we can do this. Like we bid it on this job. We won this job. We executed it. So let's like slowly start to phase everything else we have going on out and, and focus on, you know, our business together.

It was kind of like trial by fire too, because we were living in a little mining town in this like half prison, half hotel in the middle of nowhere and like in a helicopter eight hours a day. And like. In super remote locations and we'd land on the top of a mountain and have to like, dig out fuel bins with our helicopter pilot and stuff.

So I think it's a good test whether we'd work well together or not, you know, like being stuck there and in pretty gnarly circumstances for like. Three weeks. So after that, it kind of cemented like, Hey, this works well. We want to do this. And, and as Paul said, like, you know, at the time the budget, it was like 30 grand or something.

And we were like, Oh man, we're set for life. Like this is insane. I do realize it goes quick when you're shooting for a month, but definitely, yeah. 30 grand feels like peanuts, you start playing into the bigger stuff. Let's say a job lands on your table now, what are the first kind of steps you guys are taking now?

Together or taking roles and responsibilities for if a creative agency comes to you with a project. Like, are you both sitting down at the table looking at the creative talking about the roles as who's going to take what from a director or DP perspective? Like, what are the first steps? I guess when collaborating together.

Yeah, exactly. And I've kind of tied to that. We're, we're repped by untitled films now. Okay. They're incredible. Tom and Lexi are some of the best CPs in the country, if not the world. And so, you know, often we'll have a conversation first with like Tom or Lexi and they have been around forever and think really deeply about this stuff. So they're super helpful just as like a sounding board to talk through things with. And then from there, we'll kind of, I think. The key things just like talking through the idea and the execution. So that's what I found, like, it's easy to write a treatment and do this and that. But I think really breaking like how we're going to approach it and how we're going to do it.

So we kind of talk through that, send notes and references back and forth. And then we usually just like, we use like Google Slides or something like that. Just something we can both collaborate on online. So we'll like be dropping stuff in and working on it. But yeah, we kind of just tackle all the sides of it together.

Even when it comes to, like, the spreadsheeting and the budgeting and all that kind of stuff, it's just kind of a collaborative process. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's nice these days with all the shared documents, you know, we can kind of both be working on the same document at the same time. Yeah. And then I think we'll both kind of take the lead on on certain things as, as we're coming off Nick spending all last night working on a treatment that he dialed in.

So, you know, it, it goes back and forth, right. And do you guys live in the Google workspace for that? I'm curious from a software perspective, like whether that's the creative deck or also perhaps the budgeting that do you keep it all in one? Absolutely. Absolutely. Cool. It's all kind of different. And we, we, we've been trying different things.

I'd say overall, we are kind of on the Google, the Google suite software. It works so well, like, like being able to both work on decks at the same time and treatments and stuff. As for the budgeting, it would be sweet if, if we integrated that, but it's like, We use the, I think it's point zero software. So it's like, we do have to like make the adjustments and we'll just send them back and forth and each kind of tweak it as we go.

We just started using Mira though, which is like a new kind of like, almost like brainstorming like platform where you can kind of drop references and notes and arrows and it's, it's pretty cool. So we started using that. Yeah, it's really sick. Yeah, yeah, it's actually really similar to, um, Milanote, which is I'm actually looking at right now.

Um, that's how I build up the questions of the podcast as I drop all these kind of like virtual sticky notes and then kind of build a flow from there. So I think Miro is very similar to that, but it's almost like a higher level version of. Milanote, in case anyone's wondering. Both really great tools for collaborative brain dumping, I think.

Well, that's cool. Good to know a little bit about the backend workflow of things. So when it comes to, I mean, it's a competitive world. And I think you guys are playing in a, in a space that a lot of people. dream about working in? Like, if I'm a 20 year old kid with a camera who's looking at your work and saying like, Jesus, you guys are living the dream.

Advice on How to Start your Career in Film

How do you even begin to get to where you're going or where you've gotten rather? Yeah, it's a good question. It's, uh, I'll start and then let Nick chime in here because I'm sure we'll have kind of different answers. But it was kind of unique for us, I think, especially because we came from, like, as Nick said, the kind of back like, you know, my first time on set as a DP.

like even seeing a gaffer or a first AC, he, they were working for us and I had never even seen one in action before. So I like, didn't even understand their roles, but we were like hiring them. It was really weird to come in the world that way. It's not like we were kind of like on these big commercials our whole lives and like, you know, or since we were young and working our way up slowly, we kind of like with the action sports and kind of.

that world. Like we just fully came in the back door and, you know, it was a really interesting journey for us. But I'd say overall, like we got really lucky, like investing in spots that we saw that would, you know, level us up a bit. Like, for example, one of our first jobs, we had an opportunity to go shoot a project with Air Canada and the budget was like an absolute joke.

Like it didn't even cover our hotels for the night. We were just like, we know this is a crazy opportunity. And we. Like. want to make it amazing. So, you know, we went out there, we, we went to Vancouver and, and shot a project and we hustled on the edit all night. And that was our first time working with a color house.

We brought it to Pat at alter ego. And like when we were filling out the form, like it says, like Online, offline editing, we just said, like, online, like, yes, YouTube, like, we had no idea like what any of these terms meant or anything. So yeah, that all being said, like, I think, just like being able to see these projects that you could potentially like invest in that might level you up.

We and we still do that to this day, like sometimes jobs come across our lap and we're like, Hey, like, you know, we might not be cashing out on this, but I think it's going to be an amazing product and it'll help us, you know, win this job or that job down the road. Yeah, and we kind of had like, as Paul has mentioned, we kind of had this one year that was just.

Kind of an opportunity like that, like Paul recognized the staff photographer for Air Canada from an on road magazine he saw like months ago and he ran up to him in the airport and was like, Hey, I'm a huge fan of your work, blah, blah, blah. And the guy was like, how did you even know who I was? And that's how we got the Air Canada job. So we did that. And then we were doing a job. We were doing a bunch of work with this like, um, automotive group who partnered with NBA player. We did this like it was tiny little budget with Danny Green from the Raptors and like went and shot with them and didn't edit. And then next thing you know, um, EA Sports called and asked us to do the cover for Austin Matthews because he was on the, on the cover.

And, and that goes back to all those in Greece, having beers on a boat with this guy who turned out to be the creative director at EA Sports like a year before, but they saw the job we did with Danny Green. That was like, For pennies, essentially, and, um, asked us to do that. And like, we're next thing, you know, a week later, we're shooting with Austin Matthews, like kind of dream come true for EA sports.

And, you know, those two jobs kind of put us on the map. But then basically right after that, we got this, um, Porsche job that like, we had no business getting, if we were bidding it through the formal process, but we are working with a Porsche race team shooting their races and stuff. And so we got brought on to do this, this Porsche job where these cars are drifting through warehouses and stuff.

And, and again, we kind of invested every penny to put on screen. And so, you know, that built like kind of a crazy momentum and changed our life, like kind of in a six month period. Yeah, that's just such a, um, how do I say it's such a, it doesn't even make sense how our job works. You know, you're always wondering, like, how people ask, like, well, how do you get work?

Like, how do you market yourself? How do you, and like, those are perfect stories of examples. I'm like, you, you can't plan that stuff. You can't know that you're gonna bump into someone in an airport and recognize them from a fricking magazine. And then, you know, or this, you're having a beer with someone and it leads to this, like, it's always these little baby steps or pings or like.

Things that happen in a certain order that end up meeting certain people. Like, I mean, what a fricking wild career we've chosen for, for one, that's how it works.

Our friend, Matt Whelan, who's a line producer always says that. Oh, what a career path we've chosen. Yeah, it's interesting. And I mean, speaking to that, like, that also takes a certain level of risk. You know, when things get slow, it gets scary. But when things are fast and they're coming in hot, it's exciting and fun.

Dealing with Having No Guaranteed Income

And how do you guys balance that emotional roller coaster that we go through as creatives who, who have no guaranteed income ever? You know, when we go job to job, what is, what is that like for you guys? We've been lucky like since the beginning, we've had a bunch of kind of ongoing work and a lot of the work we do, we actually don't kind of post or promote.

It's kind of like more corporate or not as creative things such as like car reviews for, you know, a big automotive website. So, you know, a lot of the time, like we are, we're in a good position because we did kind of set up the business to have monthly revenue that's always coming in. But we've also been super lucky, like, I don't, I don't know what it is, but it's almost like as soon as we wrap up a big job, we're normally getting geared up for the next big job.

And it's just kind of always been one after another. It's I don't think since we started our business in like 2018, it's really been like, uh, sitting on our hands. And I think when we do have that downtime, like we're investing in other projects or passion projects that we want to do that will hopefully help lead to more work.

Like we're working on a documentary with a pro surfer out in Tofino right now, and that we went out there. For four days, assuming it's just going to be one trip shoot for a few days and we'll make a little short, but now three years later, two years later, we're like still wrapping it up. So that all being said, I think we've been super lucky just like the way we set up our business with like, you know, ongoing work.

And then any downtime we have, we try and take full advantage of like, you know, going to travel or go on a snowboard trip, surf trip, or like, you know, work on these projects that will hopefully benefit our careers at some point as well. Yeah, it sounds like you kind of have like, like any good business, you have kind of the bread and butter work at the bottom that is not sexy, but it pays the bills.

It keeps things floating. And then you have like the next layer of the bigger projects that are coming in luckily consistently. And then you're peppering in the passion projects. And I think that's just like a beautiful way to, I think that's a big one people struggle with. And something even I struggle with, I'm trying to re spark that passion now is just like peppering in the passion projects because the Super easy to just get in the grind and just shoot whatever is making money and be like, this is my job.

Cool. Like I got to play with cameras. That's exciting. But there is something to be said when you are doing the work just for yourself, spending your own money, because then ironically, I think you are almost working double as hard as you might on a, on a normal job just because of the energy and money investment that's going into it.

Yeah, 100%. For us, the having the base has always been so important because then when we have those opportunities, kind of like tentpole projects that can really affect our career, we can really like invest in them and, you know, a spend time on them, but also spend resources and like, put everything into the budget for that.

Cause you know, I think it's harder when you have to eke out a huge profit percentage or something like that on a job versus like, okay, this is going to change our lives or, you know, lead to a bunch of other stuff. So we can really go like full force in this. So it's been a good setup for us and worked really well.

Working on Passion Projects

And when it comes to like picking a passion project and actually turning it into something, cause I think that's one thing that sure you can go and shoot. Personal work, but if it's like an incohesive body of work or if it's a single piece or like no one ever sees it, like, what are the other steps? Okay, you've found a good project.

It's like it ends up turning out nice. But then what, what do you do with it? Or does it get like, do you have a brand in mind? You're already creating something for? Do you already have a contact in mind that you might be showing it to? How does that process work when it comes to picking a passion project and investing a sum of money into it.

I'd say we're very lucky. We have a lot of relationships with like, we do a lot of agency work, but also like direct to brand stuff. This documentary, for example, is fully passion project. Like we're funding it ourselves. It's like our project, but generally it starts with kind of the seed of an idea from a brand or something like that.

We've found that's kind of always the best way, like when they want to do something, then how do you amplify it and make it better and push it. Versus like, I think it's always a delicate balance. Like people do a lot of spec stuff, but I think that reads as like kind of false sometimes, especially today when, you know, it's relatively easy to go and shoot something like half the art is, is making sure it works for the brand and it fits with their strategy or the agency, you know?

So usually it's like kind of. Let's say like an underfunded project or something like that, that will decide to like put in a lot of resources and time and effort to, to kind of push it to the next level, I think. Yeah, that makes sense. So ultimately you're saying that you do kind of have an idea of in mind always when you're starting the passion project of like where it could go or a contact that you could shape it in and around.

Is that correct? I think it almost starts with like a brand we want to work with or a brand we have ties to. Like for example, one of our buddies became the sales manager for Cannondale who like. doesn't necessarily have any ties into the global marketing or anything. And, and, you know, we go to him and say like, Hey, if you guys have a new bike coming down the line, like, or we know about a new bike coming down the line, like, let's go shoot something.

We're not here to like, be like, we need this much money and, and this and that, like. You know, even some deals we've done with them, it's like, Hey, toss us a few bikes and we'll make it work. But we've been lucky in that sense, where it's like, as Nick said, we're not normally like going in, like coming up with the ideas of like a passion project we want to do and then shopping it around.

It's more like, Hey, we got this connection, like with this brand, we should try and see like what's going on, like what's coming down the line with them that we can maybe try and work on a project with and, and again, sometimes it's like, let's just invest a bit of money. Cause we know that, you know, this job will hopefully fill a bit of a gap that we have with.

this category of work or try this kind of, you know, new approach to an edit or something. So we've been, we've been really lucky in that sense. Yeah, that makes sense. And so when it comes to a situation like that, let's just say random example, Cannondale, right? You go and you shoot. The bikes. Uh, you invest a bit of money into that. How does that conversation then begin to turn into a paid project? Obviously, it's a fine balance because if you're kind of saying like, hey, here's all this, here's this incredible piece of work for free or or for like a very low sum of money, then how does that translate? Or how do you begin to have that conversation and translate it into future work? I think with our personal relationships with the people we're working with, they understand the value that the work would typically be. And I think like they understand they're getting a bit of a deal. And we just try and make that set that up from the beginning. Because like a lot of the our best thoughts and a lot of our biggest like ongoing work kind of started from that, like Yamaha, for example, they're like, a long time production partner of ours.

We've been doing all their snowmobile stuff globally for like six years. And, you know, we wanted to like coming into that contract, like towards the beginning of that relationship, we were like, we want like an emotional spot on our real, like it can't just all be like action. They were launching a new snowmobile that was kind of targeted to like the youth, early teens or whatever.

And Nick kind of wrote a spot that was like, A father, son going out snowmobiling, spending time with your kid when they're essentially at that stage where they don't want to spend time with you. So, you know, we've been lucky where it's always kind of like. We've always been kind of collaborating with the client, you could call it, but they're mostly like friends that they understand what's going on.

Like, we kind of lay it out from the beginning that we want to invest in a project. So, cause that's always kind of the, the thing everyone's worried about is you get, you do that and then you get stuck in that hole where it's like, you're kind of thought as, as the free guys or whatever, or the discount guys.

Yeah. I think it's a delicate balance for sure. And to us, it's never like, we try not to approach things like that transactionally, you know, like I think the real value is like having a creative trust with like a great brand or a great creative team at a company or something like that. Like, cause then, you know, it's a different conversation, right?

It's not like, Hey, we need to do this. Can you guys shoot it or whatever? You know, it's like, We just did a hockey spot and the brand came with five different ideas and was like, Hey, we have something in mind, but we just wanted to start talking to you early. And, uh, you know, we kind of form it with them and that to us is like, it's advertising, but it's also like kind of the best creative setup to us.

Like we really love doing stuff like that. Where, you know, you're working with them because I think that's the thing, right? Like every brand has a strategy and certain goals that you have to hit. So it's not a matter of being like, Oh, this would be really sick. Let's do this. It's like, how does this fit into everything else you're doing and like maximize, you know, what you guys are trying to do.

We've always found like just delivering value and like building a good relationship. You can't really go wrong, right? Yeah, a hundred percent. And in that regard, I mean, there's a lot of other people competing for the work you do. Obviously having personal relationships kind of cuts out a little bit of that, but I'm sure you guys are consistently bidding on stuff.

What Makes this DUO Different from the Rest?

What are some of the things that maybe have separated you from the pack when it comes to being successful in what you're doing? Because I think there's a handful of people doing it at the kind of the top. And I think looking at what you guys are doing, it's It's kind of a different version of what I've seen the director duo production company like kind of thing happening there.

What are some of the things that maybe have, um, that have been helpful for you to break away from the winning these bigger jobs? I'd say overall, like word of mouth has helped us a lot. Like if, you know, an agency producers worked with us and here's, we're bidding on a job through their agency. Like normally that will help a lot.

And I think we have so much fun on set and kind of pride ourselves on keeping it light and fun. Like, you know, we're not doing anything serious on set. Like this isn't, we're not saving people's lives or anything. So there's no reason to get All heated or worked up ever. So, you know, we keep it light and we're always laughing and having the best time.

And we're so lucky, like all across the world, we've just like, kind of dialed in crews that are essentially good friends of ours that, you know, we'd want to hang out with regardless. So it's like so fun. Like we show up and we're just like, you know, roasting each other as if we're like such good friends and having such a good time.

And I think a lot of the time, like agencies or clients will see that and be like, damn, this is cool. I'm sure a lot of. Directors and crews do that, but we make sure everyone's really having a good time. And I think that kind of word of mouth does circulate and that's helped us a lot. We always pride ourselves on having a good time on set.

Yeah, I think that's easy to lose sometimes when the stress and pressure, you know, comes up of timing and hitting goals and making sure the client's happy. It's really easy to get caught up in the, um, everything going on. And then at least that's something that I've learned over time is kind of almost like coming back and grounding yourself into just like, yeah, like you said, you're not saving lives.

The goal is also to have a great time or the client, uh, to have a great time on the project and then to show up in just such like a, yeah, create a good environment for that to all play out. Of course, we need to stay professional and create the content that we showed up to do. But, uh, I think the energy.

It's something that people, people remember more the experience they had than perhaps what ends up on the screen often. I think, yeah, 100%. I mean, I think both are equally important. Like you have to be doing good work, even if you can have the best time on set. But if, if the work at the end of the day isn't top tier, then it's not going to work.

But to your point, like we found the winning kind of formulas, like. Having an incredible line producer, because then by the time you're on set, everything's been planned. Everything's kind of dialed in. Of course, things are going to go wrong and stuff's going to have to pivot and there's going to be all sorts of issues.

But I think having a good line producer who can like stay cool and deal with that just allows us to, you know, make the day enjoyable. Like then everyone's not scrambling and worried. It's like, okay, this happened, here's the solution. So I think it, as Paul said, it really comes down to like building a network of like the right people to have around you to make sure you can actually do that and deliver a great product.

How to Build a Solid Crew of Team Members

And on that same note, how did you guys begin to build such a great Crew or network of people across the world, like often, I don't know, there's isn't a lot of isn't a lot of resources. So it's constantly we're like posting on Instagram. Hey, does someone know a first AC and wherever New York on this date?

Like, how have you guys began to build out such a solid network of crew members? I think it's a combination of a few things like, you know, as Nick said, having a good line producer, like they, they obviously normally have a pulse on good crew members that they've worked with before if they're hiring people often.

And then also social media is like, is huge, you know, as people releasing projects, you can see all the credits and like, you know, if the work kind of aligns, it's like, Oh, this, this person would be a great fit for our next shoot because they've done like a lot of hockey stuff or. know how to light the rink a certain way or something like that.

So yeah, I'd say like, that's most of it. And then just Like, you know, connections through the industry from the beginning, you know, you hire one person, they have a friend that we start working with. And then once we all align, it's like family. And we're always so excited to work with like our friends.

When we go back to Toronto, like some of the, our go to gaffer, Rory is like, we started working like at similar times. He was just kind of getting into it. We were just kind of getting into it. And now he's like crushing it and doing some of the best work in the country. Yeah, it's always fun to like go, how do I say, watch each other's careers evolve and help each other.

I always find it so fun to get a good job and then be able to call my friends and be like, Hey guys, want to work together? And just, it's such a fun experience when, when that all gets to happen. And I think we're so lucky in this, in this industry where we get to do that. Well, that's what we always tell people to about like who don't work in the industry is like, I think almost every position or like whatever crew job or industry job, everyone starts in kind of a freelance spot.

And so you kind of have to be great to be around or you get filtered out, you know, like, If you're, if you're sour on set every day, like the person hiring you is not going to call you back. So we find like, you know, everyone we work with is like such a good time. So talented, like absolute beauty. So makes the job so much more fun.

And when I look at your website, I see like all sorts of stuff like helicopters and you must be, you know, snowmobiles and all this. Kind of like how to say the toys of which are our tools, and I'm curious, what are your crew sizes look like? I'm sure it varies, but what is like a smaller skeleton crew look like maybe in order to run the like on on an average job.

And what is it like a big job look like for you from crew sizes and toys you're playing with and stuff like that. Yeah, it's, it's all over the place. Sometimes it's just Nick and I running around with, with the camera. Sometimes even we each have a camera, you know, if it's really small or remote or we're just getting a pickup shot or something.

And then some like to the biggest crew sizes, like as we mentioned with Untitled, sometimes there's over a hundred people on set and we're rolling up as like director duo DP, which is like. It was wild the first time for sure, but yeah, I'd say it's, it depends on what we're shooting. Like sometimes, you know, it is nice to have the hands on set and to be able to move quick, you know, for in like remote areas in the back country or on snowmobiles or something like you want guys that can ride and operate them efficiently and get to these locations safely and like, you know, not damage any equipment or snowmobiles or anything like that.

Yeah. But. We've been really lucky like being able to kind of work with crew sizes of like 10 to 20 people I think is like kind of the most fun because it's like everyone's like key to be there and We've worked with them a bunch of times normally, so it's just Super fun and easy. And it's kind of like easy to communicate with a bit of a smaller crew, but still have, you know, the hands to get everything you need done.

I would agree. I feel like my, also my favorite crew sizes and around that, like 15 mark of like, everyone has their roles and they're dialed. Yeah, that's so fun. And like for us, I think it's, it's kind of realizing what it is. Like, you know, some jobs, especially when we started, it's kind of. We're setting up this cool thing that's going to happen and we're shooting it and making it look nice versus like we're creating a world when you're into that kind of creating a world you have to have more people like it's production design and wardrobe and feeling you know 80s for actors and all that stuff so like there's some jobs you can't do with less than 30 people and there's some jobs you can do with three so Kind of depends, but yeah, I think we really excel at kind of pushing limited crew and putting the value on screen a lot of the time.

And I just heard a whisper of like what it might have been like. So what was it like to show up to that like 100 person set for the first time as a, as a duo director DP, I have a feeling that might've been an interesting experience. Yeah, no, it was, it was fun. And, you know, as, as we kind of mentioned, it was a job with Untitled.

So, you know, having Tom and Lexi by our sides as the EPs on it and like going into a job of that scale takes a lot of prep work and, you know, scouting and camera prep and all that stuff. And I think just having Tom and Lexi and just such a good crew around us made it like. Smooth and easy. But yeah, it was definitely like learning to work with certain crew members that we've never worked.

We had never worked with before on our own was was definitely interesting, but but also so fun. Like everyone was amazing. Like, you know, I think just the reputation untitled has like a lot of the crew that that works with them are top notch and such nice people. So it was overall just an amazing day and we had a blast.

Oh yeah, we'll often do like a 30, 40 person or something like that. So this is just, you know, next level and, and I think it's like kind of two different arts. Like one is, you know, you're making the most of like the very limited resources you have. And the other is you're steering this kind of large ship and figuring out how to do all of that.

So we find both are really fun and like kind of very different ways to wrap your head around. Right? Like one is we're in the back country. We're like, okay, let's shoot over here. Let's run. I'll grab the monitor. You grab the camera. Let's run through the woods. And the other is like, oh, we decided to move the camera two feet.

We have to wait an hour to reset everything. So it's cool. Like it makes it very fun both ways. And it's just like, Definitely an adjustment just to like approach things differently. But I think that's where the prep comes in so handy, like kind of, you know, developing the plan ahead of time. So you're not in that situation where you're redressing a set and waiting an hour and burning time.

Art vs. Business

Yeah, totally. When it comes to art versus business, I think this is something that I guess a lot of people struggle with because I feel like you to be successful in this industry. You need to have both brains because you can be a great DP or a great director or whatever. But if you don't understand the business side of it, it's hard to make a living at this. So I'm curious to dive into a little bit about it. How you guys managed to balance these two because I feel like it is a bit of a left brain, right brain situation going on and does that stuff come naturally to you and like how do you stay fired up creatively but also like are still looking at the spreadsheets and the numbers at the end of the day.

Yeah, I think for us, like both sides are an art to us, kind of like, you know, even just the bidding process and pitching and like, that's a whole art in and of itself. It's almost separate from, from the art of making stuff, but I don't know to us, both sides get us like super stoked and excited and, and one feeds the other, right?

Like at the end of the day, the only way to grow the business is doing really great creative work. So. Yeah, I don't know. I think both are like super exciting and Paul and I have kind of figured it out as we developed, like he's incredible at kind of sales and starting relationships and that kind of thing.

So I think we have a nice setup and it goes to like having good people around that can help with accounting. For example, it's probably not either of our strong suits, but over the years we developed like great relationships with people who can help us with that kind of thing. And I think it's kind of the nature of the industry, you know, even being freelance, you're kind of out on your own trying to figure it out.

And, you know, I've been, I guess, fortunate enough, like I've, I've never really worked in an actual job besides running my own business. Like even when I was, I think, 13, I like started my own essentially production company when I was shooting skateboarding and stuff. And besides being like 14 or 15, working at a snowboard shop for a few years, I haven't really had a real job.

So I feel like I've just, I kind of just was thrown into the deep end at, uh, At a really young age, and it just kind of made it more fun as like we scaled the business up as we were like landing more and more jobs to be like. involved in growing the business versus, you know, focusing too much on the art of being a DP or director.

But as Nick said, like the growing the business is super fun. And it's like almost the same rush you get when you're on set shooting, trying to get a job done is like when you're trying to land them jobs themselves. Yeah. I mean, it sounds like you're just like born an entrepreneur at heart and happen to use a camera as well as, as the tool, the medium to, to get there, which is cool.

Exactly. Yeah. And I'm not even sure. Like, it's like, we, we often play with the idea. It's like, Oh, what would it look like just to be, you know, an EP and kind of managing the business and not be on the camera as much. And, you know, it's definitely something kind of have on. On the back burner would be would still work.

You know, I don't I don't have to be in front of the camera every day or, you know, sorry behind the camera every day. It's so fun to like, you know, grow the business and bid on these jobs and, you know, make those relationships. I gotta say you're a unique I feel like a lot of creative directors or DPs are, you know, they want nothing to do with that. You know, like that. And that's why we have our separate roles. So it's interesting to hear that you're, you do enjoy that part of it. Because I think that that ultimately tells me why you guys have been also so successful is because you do have to enjoy both parts of, of, of that process. I think specifically the way you guys have shaped your.

Production company, what you're doing, or you have to then build relationships outside of with the people who are good at those things. So it sounds like you, you have a delicate balance, but it's working really well. So that's, that's awesome. Yeah. I appreciate that. And I think to us, the two have always been connected.

Like we kind of created our careers out of nothing. So that meant knowing the business side and like doing that side of things. Cause it's not like we were just like, people were just like, Hey, direct this massive spot. So I think to us, it's always been kind of intertwined and, and I think that's kind of the beauty of the industry is that great mixture between, you know, it is a business, but it's also super creative and to us, like any, any ad we're doing, it feels like we're making art.

How to Build and Maintain Relationships in the Industry

So we're, yeah, we're stoked on it all. And when it comes to building relationships, I think in the beginning, that's kind of a daunting task to people. It doesn't sounds like it came naturally to you guys, but I guess for someone who's starting out, who like is falling in love with creating film, film stuff, or starting to build a photo portfolio, like how does one begin to build relationships?

Like, I guess, You know, a lot of the things we're shooting, whether it's like hockey or dirt biking, I enjoy doing often, like I'm, I'm out doing a lot of the activities and sports we're working on all the time. So, you know, I think organically you're meeting people in the industry and that's even how we met Tom from Untitled was on a chairlift randomly, like as with through mutual friends.

So it's like, what are the chances of that? They were like one of the biggest and our favorite production company we ever looked up to in Canada. And we're like, it was just crazy to randomly sit beside the EP on a chairlift. But I think also having a good mentor, as Nick and I said, and that's how we met, like having a mentor was like a game changer and you just learn so much.

I think we both had a few different mentors in a few different industries. And that really taught us, you know, how to meet people, how to sell yourself, how to build relationships. Like one of my longtime mentors is like, he owns a golf and snowboard sales company that like they distribute and sell like a bunch of big brands, um, in Canada.

So, you know, it's, it's kind of irrelevant to our industry, but his business is also all about. relationships and sales and stuff like that. And I think I just learned so much from, from that individual. Like when I was at a young age, it just kind of teaches you how to move in certain ways. And Keep those relationships going.

Yeah. Is there anything that comes to mind when it comes to, I don't know, maintaining relationships with people? I know that's like, it's kind of like a far off topic that's different from the film or the business side. But I think as humans, we, I think it's one thing they don't teach us in school is, or well, they didn't teach us many things by the way, but one of them specifically is relationships.

And I think sometimes it can be looked at as this big, Scary thing like, Oh God, I'm an, I'm an introverted artist. Like how the heck do I begin to meet people or consistently stay in touch with them? Or is there anything that is kind of simple maybe that comes to mind what the, but maybe isn't obvious to people that are just kind of like get stuck in the introverted mindset of trying to figure out what to do.

Yeah. As mentioned, I think like just, we've been really lucky, like building the relationships, doing the activities that we're, we're working within, like, for example, we, we go mountain biking with the Fox guys all the time. And then a job kind of comes to life and it's like, we're now friends at that point where they know, you know, I'm not, I'm not there necessarily to be like, yo, we need to work.

We need work. Like it's there. They're genuinely friends of ours and you know, I enjoy like hanging out and I've had some of my favorite mountain bike. missions down here in California with like these, the head of marketing at Fox or head of sports marketing. And, you know, we are friends, but I'd say it's like, top of mind.

I'm not necessarily trying to think that that's going to lead to a bunch of work. It's more just like a straight up friendship. So I think there's a balance of, of that, but I think we are also very lucky that like a lot of the The sports and activities we do, whether it's like, you know, surfing, cycling or dirt biking.

It's like we are doing them with people that work in the industry and they are sometimes the people that are making the decisions on like. Where that job is going to go and who's going to end up producing that job. I think to Paul's point too, like it's kind of related, but the mentors, you know, it's not, I think with all these relationships, it's like, they can't be transactional.

Like, you're not trying to get this or that. It's like all the mentors we've had in our career since we started are like genuine close friends and, you know, we'd do anything for. So it's not like, Hey man, help me out again on this. It's like, yeah, you need something driven across the country. No stress.

We'll do it right now. Like We do anything for them. And, and, you know, that's a reciprocal relationship because we respect them and appreciate them and love them and their friends. So I think it's not like, Hey, how do we get this out of this person? It's kind of developing like real relationships. And I think that goes back to like making this an enjoyable career, right?

Like if you're close with everyone and friends with people you interact with and makes it a lot more enjoyable. Yeah, exactly. That's kind of what I wanted to hear was that piece of dislike showing up, immersing yourself in the culture and the people and putting yourself around the people that you want to work with, adding value, not showing up trying to get something, but try to give something.

And then also I think that just energy of developing a friendship eventually without the mindset of trying to get anything, it just naturally organically happens. And I think that's the beautiful part about any relationship in general. A hundred percent. I think going back to your question about like, you know, someone who's just starting that's part of it, but you also have to be actually going out and making things like you can have the highest end best mentor in the world.

But like, if you aren't proving yourself that you can do this or that or elevate your work or do the bigger thing. Then no one can help you. Right. So I think it's like a bit of both, like you have to be just charging and developing stuff and doing new work and pushing yourself, but then also have the people around who can see that and help you and push you to grow further because it's such a strange industry, right?

Like there's not besides, you know, this podcast and a few other resources, like. There's not a roadmap. It's not like, you know, you start here, then you get here and you get a promotion two years later, you can go from being a receptionist to owning the company after five years. And, you know, You can be a PA and then have like 60 people on set for a job you're producing the next two years later.

So I think it's like, that's so key is just having people who support you and you know, vice versa. It's a two way street, but having people who can like guide you and, and just. Give you advice on how to do things proper. Yeah, well said. And I'd love to dive a little bit into the gear side of things. I think people love talking about this stuff.

Purchasing vs. Renting from a Business Perspective

Although this podcast is geared towards kind of the making a life and a living part. But I'm curious, how much gear do you guys own versus rent? And how do you make those decisions when it comes to purchasing versus renting from a business perspective? Yeah, we own two red cameras and then two sets of lenses like one set of spherical glass and then a set of anamorphic.

And then we own like, obviously, like all everything else, it's kind of basic and comes along with that. Like we have a basic lighting kit and some tripods and stuff like that. But I think we just found that like owning a camera body was just super financially beneficial if you can use it enough. And I remember like at first, like we got the first Red Ranger Gemini in Canada and we were kind of on the fence what we should get, when we should get it.

And at a certain point it was like, okay, to rent a camera at this scale, we'd have to use it like this many days a year. And it was a no brainer. And then it was also like, I think we just need to be shooting at that level. We just need to have one. We can't be like, Oh, we'll rent one when we get to that level or when we get the opportunity to shoot at that level.

And Nick was good at that too. Like Nick was kind of like, no, let's just get it. Then we have it. And then it'll bring us to that level. And I think it, it worked out pretty well, but yeah, we, we love the red camera systems and we'll rent, you know, other cameras like Ari's if, if we need to, for, for certain jobs.

And then same with the lenses. We have the. The Atlas anamorphics and they've been amazing. And we find that lenses also appreciate in value, which is crazy. So that was also a no brainer to get those lenses. And the quality is insane, especially for the value. And I think it allows us, like, you know, on a job, let's say, to go shoot an extra day of pickups or something.

It doesn't cost 10 grand. It's kind of already like baked in. So just like being able to push stuff and like. Go get some extra pickups or like, for example, this documentary we're doing, you know, if we were renting the camera, we'd be into like 70 grand of rentals and it's multiple days and stuff like that.

So I think it's like, it's a balance. We started with a Sony FS seven, same with me, legendary camera. Yeah. I caught it. We still, we use it on Yamaha once a year, we bring it out. But you know, it's like, I think you have to understand you're not going to make money on the camera after. So you have to like, but that camera doesn't know us a penny. Like if we had rented it, we probably would have paid 10 times for how much we used it and like how much we got out of it. So yeah, as Paul said, like it was a big debate for the red and like, you know, we were like, Oh, should we do this? Should we not? And then at the end of the day, it's like, Hey, we want to be operated in the highest level.

And like, this is the camera people are using at the highest level. So. If you can do it in a way that's financially responsible and you can swing it because you know, there's also all, all the stories of like a PA rolls up to set and owns three reds and, and all these things. And like, he's not taken super seriously because of that.

So it's not like, Hey, if you want to get in this industry, go buy a 50, 000 camera. It's like, you know, figuring out the balance, when does it make sense? But, you know, I think we definitely benefited from getting it before we were shooting at that level. Cause then. On a 5, 000 job, we're shooting with, I read and like popping off and doing the edited ourself and it, it looks like it was a hundred grand, you know?

Yeah, I had a similar path where, yeah, it was when I, I would say, started out in photography, but it was a tipping point where I started to do more video work with a DSLR. And then it was when I bought the FS7 that I was like, okay, I'm taking myself seriously in the video aspect of things. And then I basically built my career on that FS7.

And then there was another tipping point where I like, I was like, well, you know, on set on a big Skadoo shoot. And I was the only one there out of like six, seven shooters, DBs, that Didn't have a red and I was like, okay, this is now not because of my skills that I'm not able to to be at this level. It's just because of the thing I'm holding in my hand. So, but I would say it's a delicate balance of picking that timing because like you just said, dropping 50 grand on a camera is not a light decision and could wreck you also financially if you're not able to find that work. Did you guys, I mean, you guys have the benefit of, I guess, splitting costs between two people, which is nice.

I would say, is that correct? Is that how you run things? Yeah, we, we run the business like 50 50, so sorry what we just said there, Paul. Which I think can be huge. Yeah, when it comes to like big ticket items, I think that's really helpful. What was the tipping point for you when it came to purchasing the RED?

Like why, I think you mentioned because You know, you did the math on how many, much money you'd be spending to rent it for jobs. Is that kind of like the tipping point when you realize, okay, I have this much work. It's almost not guaranteed, but you can see the path forward. And then took the leap of faith because I think a lot of people are really scared and could make bad timing decisions when it comes to those, those big jumps.

Yeah. I'd say it's kind of a risk that you got to be willing to take to a certain And as Nick kind of said, like, you know, I think we were just like looking at it as if like, Hey, all our competitors are all the people we want to work with or be at their level or shooting on these cameras. Like, I think we need to jump in and get 1.

And I think we just, you know, as mentioned, we had so much ongoing work with our business that it wasn't like. a crazy stretch for us to make this investment. And we knew it was gonna bring us up to that level. And as Nick said, like, you know, we were shooting on it before we hit that level. So it kind of worked our advantage to, to have the camera and it helped us grow for sure.

Yeah, that makes sense. Just to switch gears a little bit. Is there any like systems and processes you guys have put in place? I know we touched on that a little bit with the Google workspace stuff But I'm always curious to hear what other people are using when it comes to anything from creative organization building decks Accounting whatever it is, like just the business grindy stuff.

Systems, Software, and Workflows

That's not very sexy If there's any pieces of software or like workflows that are helping you is there anything that comes to mind? Every year, Nick and I, like at the beginning of the year, we, we sit down, like, I think we started doing this like right from the beginning, but first week of January, we schedule a nice long call, spend half the day or get together in person and just go through like, you know, what we, what we like doing, what we don't like doing, what we want to do more of, what we want to do less of, and a lot of it does circulate workflow.

What we just started doing, which is like, like pretty basic, and I think it has to do with our, like us being kind of a duo is every morning at 8am we have a call and just go through like exactly what we have to do or, you know, what's on the table for the day or week or whatever, which helps a lot. And then QuickBooks has been a big one for us to, you know, being able to see everything and have everything all in one place, whether it's our annual revenue goals or invoices.

Or, you know, checking in on, on payment, like timing of payments and stuff like that. So I'd say QuickBooks is one is one that's been consistent since the beginning and, and has been amazing for us, especially on the business side. Like, you know, as Nick said, we're neither of us, our accounts are too, uh, strong in that, in that area, but QuickBooks has been amazing.

And it was, it was funny. We actually ended up doing, uh, A job across Canada with them shooting kind of a bunch of little, little commercials with them across Canada last year. So we're popping off on the briefing call. Like this is the best software ever. Like we, we tried to finesse being one of the characters they focused on, but maybe next year.

That's hilarious. But you did also mention zero. Was that something else? Is that it's like, Oh, right, right, right. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. So mural for creative, creative brain dumping. It's really sick. We just started using it and it's like. I think we're still getting used to it, but you can lay out, like, we're working on launching this new company in the States and like, you can lay out like the objectives, long term goals, what's been done, and it's all like interactive and you can move stuff around.

It's really like post it notes, like a big whiteboard, you know, we've tried a few of them and whatever, like. Some don't stick, some do, but that one seems to work really well for, for how we operate. And it's like super interactive, like you can drop in images and videos and all sorts of things. So, yeah, that works pretty well.

But, you know, I think at the end of the day, it's really patent paper and, and emails, nothing to, uh, Revolutionary, you know, so when you come out of your 8am meeting together, what is, uh, are you guys literally handwriting checklists like to take off that day? Or like, do you have a project management software that's thinking or is it, are we keeping it old school?

Like, how does that, how does that work for you guys? I usually just use the notes app on my, uh, on my laptop there on the. The Apple system can make the little check boxes and I know it's, it's always kind of rewarding just to run through it and rip checks, check marks as you get through the day and complete the tasks.

We've tried different ways of doing it, but I don't know, we found kind of the old school as Nick said, just kind of works well, like, you know, we follow up with emails and, and just go run through checklists and, and then those checklists just carry over, like, you know, if there's a task that didn't get done and gets carried over the next day, and we'll just kind of chat through the to do list, you know, every morning, but yeah.

We find like, you know, everyone thinks we're like out shooting every day and like, just getting to travel and have fun. But it's like 90 percent of our, our time is just sitting in front of a computer, like, you know, getting these tasks done and prepping for jobs or wrapping jobs up and stuff like that.

So yeah, it's pretty crazy. Yeah, and I think that's where like that as you know, advice is all this time, but I think having a to do list is so key because like, it's so easy to just kind of spend the whole day kind of, you know, you're responding to stuff, you're putting out fires, doing this and that, but like, To really do creative work or like come up with new things or, you know, work, but like a big imprint on an edit or something, you also need that, like time to just like sit and think about it and do it.

That's like completely undistracted. So that's where you find it's nice. Like, okay, I have to achieve, I have to do this, like housekeeping during the day, but then I need 4 hours just to like, think about this editor work on this treatment or, you know, because you can't really be like. half responding to emails, half grinding on a treatment if you want to like, make it slap, you know?

Yeah, that maybe brings a good point. And maybe you guys have the benefit and I'm jealous because you can sit down and have an 8am meeting. Although I can do that with my, I can only do that with myself. It's just like, okay, there's a million tasks you can do in a day. How do you choose the right tasks?

Like what are the quote unquote, like when you look at the big rocks, you need to move versus the small rocks. Like, how are you choosing in your, like your meeting when you look at the broads? Strokes of the like bigger picture of the company and creative projects you want to achieve and like the micro tasks of the day.

Like, how do you begin to break that down and make sure you're headed in the right direction? I think generally we've been lucky just to set like deadlines for certain things. Like as soon as an idea surfaces, then we'll be like, okay, well, let's aim to like have this done by this day. And I think we just kind of follow up with each other as the days go by.

It's like, okay, like, let's just keep targeting for that day to get this done. But it is also so funny. Like just the other day, you know, we had these like simple accounting paperwork to do that. We put off for like literally like a month and it took us, it took literally 10 minutes. And we're like, yo, like Nick and I are both very similar in that sense where we're like, just kind of dreading it.

We're like, oh, we got to do that paperwork. We got to do that paperwork. And then I'm like, dude, I just finished it all in 10 minutes. Like what? Like, I can't believe we put it off for a month and like, had to hang over our head. So yeah, I'd say it's like, we just, we have a good calendar system, you know, within Google or, or Apple or whatever, and just kind of like set the timeline of, of whatever tasks we want to do right away.

And then like, that way we're not you know, in theory, putting things off too long or focusing on the wrong thing. Yeah. And I think it's with our industry, it's two very different. Sometimes you're just kind of maintaining, like doing your thing. And then sometimes you're juggling three jobs or bidding on four things at once.

And it's like wartime. And I think, you know, the workflow kind of changes at that point where it's like, okay, we have to do All of these 200 things today, or things are going to fall apart. So I think like that's a very different mentality. And like, I think we work well under those kinds of like super gnarly turnaround times and like when stuff's hectic. So I think it's like, we've always treated, even, you know, when we're not in those situations, always treated it like a job, like, you know, we're working during the days, we're kind of just like doing stuff that needs to get done, cause it's so easy to like push that stuff off and not do it. So. Yeah, I don't know.

I think we have a good setup and yeah, it kind of depends on the level of chaos that's happening at the time. It's also so funny that like Nick references this all the time, but we're like sitting on our computer, sending emails and doing all this other work in hopes that we'll be shooting more. Like, you know, we're just setting up shoots and doing things that revolve around us, like traveling and shooting and doing all these fun things.

And then as soon as we're doing them, we're like stressing because we need to get back on the keys. We're like, yo, like we got to say, like, we're in the middle of a week long shoot in like Montana. And like, we have a treatment that's due like in two days, like we don't have time to do it. Like, we got to get on the keys.

Like, so we always had a, it's such a funny thing that like. We're always like wanting to do the other no matter what we're doing when we call Yama that that trip to Montana We do every year is kind of our good luck charm because it's inevitable We're bidding like at least two jobs during that one week for whatever reason we're in like full Minus 40 snow gear in a heated trailer and we're doing briefing calls for like two other spots It's a funny setup.

But when one thing starts popping then I feel like people can see or like read the momentum, you know what I mean? Like when one thing's really popping, then there's like five others at the same time. Yeah, there's something to be said for that, like snowball energy. I don't know what to call it, but I have experienced it definitely myself.

And I think it really takes a certain person. Obviously, you guys. and myself are wired like this, that that's just how we roll. It's like when the heat gets turned up, you show up and you just, you just, you just figure it out. And I think, um, that's like a certain mindset. I think that just takes a long time, not in a long time, but it's something that you have to develop, but it, and it doesn't come naturally for everyone, but it sounds like you guys have it.

And, um, yeah, it's cool to see what you guys have built with that mindset. Thanks, Sam. Appreciate that. As we begin to wrap things up, is there anything that's like specifically firing you up right now when it comes to projects or vision for the future? I think Paul mentioned it, but we're working on wrapping up this surf film right now.

It's kind of 95 percent done. So yeah, we're excited to kind of launch that and get that out the door. And then we're working on setting up kind of a slightly different setup, different approach company in the US. So that's been kind of taking up a lot of our time and should be announcing that in like a month or two.

So we're really stoked on that. And then, yeah, a few projects in the works that coming down the line, that should be great. But, um, yeah, it's really like, I think for us establishing ourselves down here, like we were kind of the up and coming kids in Toronto and felt like the young guys and here, you know, you're kind of starting from square one being in LA.

So it's been super motivating and, and, uh, it's a fun kind of. Different approach just to be like charging hard down here and developing relationships and getting stuff popping. Yeah, that's awesome. And an ambitious leap to kind of go down into the the belly of it all in LA and show up as the new kids on the block.

So, uh, yeah, kudos to you guys. But yeah, Paul, Nick, thanks so much for coming on the show today. Appreciate you. And where can people go to find you guys if they want to check out your work? So you can check out our site. It's uh, tayloread. ca and then our Instagram is tayloreadcreative. Awesome. And your Instagram handles? Mine's paulread with two d's p a u l r e i d d. And mine's nicholasjaytaylor with an underscore. Yeah, I just wanted to say thanks for doing this. Um, I really love the, the podcast you're doing and love the episode with Shauna. I felt like that had some like amazing advice and. It's cool. You're doing this for the industry and we appreciate the opportunity to be on it.

Thank you. Yeah. Thanks for, thanks for the great chat and all the little nuggets. We'll have to have you on again. Yeah. Thanks Marshall. Appreciate it.

Okay, that was Paul Reid and Nick Taylor. Paul and Nick seem like such a great team, and it's cool to hear about the inner workings of how things really play out on the back end, running a business as a director duo. I encourage you to check out their work at taylorReid. ca, or on Instagram, taylorReidcreative.

Both their personal Instagrams are paulReid with a double d, and nicholasjtaylor with an underscore at the end. In future episodes, I will be speaking with photographers, cinematographers, directors, producers, reps, and anyone who has decided to take this ambitious leap of faith of making life and a living behind the lens.

Stay tuned and subscribe to the channel on your favorite podcast app. And if you've heard something you like, shoot me a DM on Instagram and encourage me to keep going or share it with a friend. I appreciate you. Thanks for listening. And we'll catch you next time on shot list.